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Author Topic: 2017 Nominations  (Read 257 times)

Charles Longboat Jr.

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Re: 2017 Nominations
« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2018, 02:46:21 pm »
Add Disaster Artist, Big Sick, and Logan Lucky for me
You know, we may differ politically, but Disaster Artist and Big Sick are both solidly in my top 4 as well :)
Can I choose Get Out, Dunkirk, and Molly's Game as three?
Dunkirk's already on the list but I'll add the rest.

cupcake

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Re: 2017 Nominations
« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2018, 02:56:23 pm »
It Comes at Night and Raw
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Kale Pasta

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Re: 2017 Nominations
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2018, 03:17:45 pm »
Add Disaster Artist, Big Sick, and Logan Lucky for me
You know, we may differ politically, but Disaster Artist and Big Sick are both solidly in my top 4 as well :)
Can I choose Get Out, Dunkirk, and Molly's Game as three?
Dunkirk's already on the list but I'll add the rest.
My bad, didn't see it. Thanks though.

Tho Master Fie

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Re: 2017 Nominations
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2018, 03:38:30 pm »
The Florida Project
Logan
Idk 2017 sucked

Charles Longboat Jr.

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Re: 2017 Nominations
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2018, 03:44:13 pm »
The Florida Project
Logan
Idk 2017 sucked
Eh, I actually prefer it to 2016 qualitatively speaking. Some of the later output of 2016 was arguably stronger I think 2017 had a more widely spread amount of quality.

Flounder Prefers Browntown

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Re: 2017 Nominations
« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2018, 07:57:51 pm »
It's probably not even in his top 200 of the year.
You're right. It's not.

It's in my top 100 of the year.
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Re: 2017 Nominations
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2018, 08:07:03 pm »
John won't vote for Lady Macbeth. He gave it a 9/10.
The only thing preventing me from giving it a 10 is that there were a few moments during the later parts of the film where I had a bit of an issue with the pacing. That's it though. The rest of the film is paced wonderfully and everything else in it I thought was excellent, Florence Pugh's performance in particular.
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Flounder Prefers Browntown

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Re: 2017 Nominations
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2018, 08:09:47 pm »
It's in my top 100 of the year.
Speaking of which, I'm currently working on a video paying tribute to said top 100.
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Crohn's Boy

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Re: 2017 Nominations
« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2018, 08:11:01 pm »
John won't vote for Lady Macbeth. He gave it a 9/10.
The only thing preventing me from giving it a 10 is that there were a few moments during the later parts of the film where I had a bit of an issue with the pacing. That's it though. The rest of the film is paced wonderfully and everything else in it I thought was excellent, Florence Pugh's performance in particular.

If a film gets a 10/10 from you, that means it's perfect and has no flaws?  You seriously thought there were zero flaws in I, Tonya, Wonderstruck, Wonder Woman, Gerald's Game, Song to Song, Free Fire, etc.?
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cupcake

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Re: 2017 Nominations
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2018, 08:14:18 pm »
John won't vote for Lady Macbeth. He gave it a 9/10.
The only thing preventing me from giving it a 10 is that there were a few moments during the later parts of the film where I had a bit of an issue with the pacing. That's it though. The rest of the film is paced wonderfully and everything else in it I thought was excellent, Florence Pugh's performance in particular.

If a film gets a 10/10 from you, that means it's perfect and has no flaws?  You seriously thought there were zero flaws in I, Tonya, Wonderstruck, Wonder Woman, Gerald's Game, Song to Song, Free Fire, etc.?

Nevermind, you do have a personality trait: You're annoying.
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Tut

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Re: 2017 Nominations
« Reply #30 on: February 19, 2018, 12:08:38 am »
John won't vote for Lady Macbeth. He gave it a 9/10.
The only thing preventing me from giving it a 10 is that there were a few moments during the later parts of the film where I had a bit of an issue with the pacing. That's it though. The rest of the film is paced wonderfully and everything else in it I thought was excellent, Florence Pugh's performance in particular.

If a film gets a 10/10 from you, that means it's perfect and has no flaws?  You seriously thought there were zero flaws in I, Tonya, Wonderstruck, Wonder Woman, Gerald's Game, Song to Song, Free Fire, etc.?

Dang... now that I think about, there were actually zero flaws in I, Tonya.

Crohn's Boy

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Re: 2017 Nominations
« Reply #31 on: February 19, 2018, 12:24:59 am »
John won't vote for Lady Macbeth. He gave it a 9/10.
The only thing preventing me from giving it a 10 is that there were a few moments during the later parts of the film where I had a bit of an issue with the pacing. That's it though. The rest of the film is paced wonderfully and everything else in it I thought was excellent, Florence Pugh's performance in particular.

If a film gets a 10/10 from you, that means it's perfect and has no flaws?  You seriously thought there were zero flaws in I, Tonya, Wonderstruck, Wonder Woman, Gerald's Game, Song to Song, Free Fire, etc.?

Dang... now that I think about, there were actually zero flaws in I, Tonya.

Lol.
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Tut

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Re: 2017 Nominations
« Reply #32 on: February 19, 2018, 01:30:37 am »
John won't vote for Lady Macbeth. He gave it a 9/10.
The only thing preventing me from giving it a 10 is that there were a few moments during the later parts of the film where I had a bit of an issue with the pacing. That's it though. The rest of the film is paced wonderfully and everything else in it I thought was excellent, Florence Pugh's performance in particular.

If a film gets a 10/10 from you, that means it's perfect and has no flaws?  You seriously thought there were zero flaws in I, Tonya, Wonderstruck, Wonder Woman, Gerald's Game, Song to Song, Free Fire, etc.?

Dang... now that I think about, there were actually zero flaws in I, Tonya.

Lol.

The fact that you continue to hide behind the disagree button and "lol" tells me you have nothing of substance to add to this.

Crohn's Boy

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Re: 2017 Nominations
« Reply #33 on: February 19, 2018, 01:59:58 am »
John won't vote for Lady Macbeth. He gave it a 9/10.
The only thing preventing me from giving it a 10 is that there were a few moments during the later parts of the film where I had a bit of an issue with the pacing. That's it though. The rest of the film is paced wonderfully and everything else in it I thought was excellent, Florence Pugh's performance in particular.

If a film gets a 10/10 from you, that means it's perfect and has no flaws?  You seriously thought there were zero flaws in I, Tonya, Wonderstruck, Wonder Woman, Gerald's Game, Song to Song, Free Fire, etc.?

Dang... now that I think about, there were actually zero flaws in I, Tonya.

Lol.

The fact that you continue to hide behind the disagree button and "lol" tells me you have nothing of substance to add to this.

All you did was come in and say "wow I don't think there are any flaws in I, Tonya!"  Would you consider that to be an example of you adding substance to the conversation?  But since you asked, I might as well say what I dislike about I, Tonya.

-My main issue is how poorly the abuse portion of the film is handled, and that's a major component of the film.  The movie tries to be a dark comedy, and that's completely fine, but there needs to be a balance of tone that isn't jarring.  For example, you can't play a scene of horrifying abuse completely straight and then follow it up ten seconds later with Allison Janney making a quip about how "every family has its ups and downs."  It lessens the impact and trivializes what's supposed to be a hard-hitting moment.

-I know this is going to be an unpopular opinion because they've both gotten a bunch of acting nominations for the film, but both Margot Robbie and Allison Janney aren't very good in this.  There's a lack of subtlety in both of their performances.   Subtlety isn't always necessary for a performance to be good, but with the type of film this is, all I'm asking for is a little bit of depth and nuance.  All of their scenes felt like they were trying to win an Oscar so desperately, and it comes off as very forced.

-On top of the film's tone being really wonky, when it does go for comedy, it simply is not funny.  Every time the fat guy tried to go for laughs, every time Tonya turned to the camera and said something, every time Allison Janney said a "funny line," I laughed maybe once or twice.  If you're not going to appeal to me dramatically, the least you can do is make me laugh.  The film fails at doing both.

-Watching this, I felt like it was trying to be a pale imitator of a better film, and I didn't really know what it was until I finally gave Goodfellas a watch a few days ago.  I thought Goodfellas was great, and all it did was make me dislike this film even less for being a film that so clearly aspires to be it but can never become it.  That's cool if you're inspired by Goodfellas to make a film, but if you're gonna be influenced by it, at least try not to make their similarities so glaringly obvious.

-Nancy Kerrigan should've been given more development, plain and simple.  All she does is scream after her knee cap gets busted in.  We never know more about her relationship with Tonya, never know more about her as a person, etc.  She's reduced to a plot device, and so when her knee cap gets fucked, we feel nothing.  I wanted to know more about her, but instead she's just swept under the rug.
Goodbye!

Tut

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Re: 2017 Nominations
« Reply #34 on: February 19, 2018, 02:26:52 am »
All you did was come in and say "wow I don't think there are any flaws in I, Tonya!"  Would you consider that to be an example of you adding substance to the conversation?  But since you asked, I might as well say what I dislike about I, Tonya.

-My main issue is how poorly the abuse portion of the film is handled, and that's a major component of the film.  The movie tries to be a dark comedy, and that's completely fine, but there needs to be a balance of tone that isn't jarring.  For example, you can't play a scene of horrifying abuse completely straight and then follow it up ten seconds later with Allison Janney making a quip about how "every family has its ups and downs."  It lessens the impact and trivializes what's supposed to be a hard-hitting moment.
I wouldn't call that a quip so much as a way of illustrating how the mother didn't take the abuse seriously whatsoever, and didn't recognize how much she was damaging her daughter. It's not intended to be laugh-out-loud funny, but it does elicit some incredulous, awkward laughter because that's the only way to deal with the reality of Tonya's life. This sounds like John's bogus complaint about comedies being "mean-spirited," when in actuality the film is quite cathartic without taking itself too seriously.

-I know this is going to be an unpopular opinion because they've both gotten a bunch of acting nominations for the film, but both Margot Robbie and Allison Janney aren't very good in this.  There's a lack of subtlety in both of their performances.   Subtlety isn't always necessary for a performance to be good, but with the type of film this is, all I'm asking for is a little bit of depth and nuance.  All of their scenes felt like they were trying to win an Oscar so desperately, and it comes off as very forced.
Moody, this was as far from an Oscar-bait film as you can possibly get, plain and simple. Yeah, the Academy loves its biopics, but this film had morally grey characters and a lot of "mean-spirited" comedy that does not play well with Academy types. I'd say that those performances are intentionally shallow on the surface, because those characters hide who they are under layers of indifference, malice, and abuse, which makes it all the more emotionally wrenching when their true selves come through. The scene in the courtroom at the end breaks Tonya's exterior, and it's one of the most emotional scenes of the year.

-On top of the film's tone being really wonky, when it does go for comedy, it simply is not funny.  Every time the fat guy tried to go for laughs, every time Tonya turned to the camera and said something, every time Allison Janney said a "funny line," I laughed maybe once or twice.  If you're not going to appeal to me dramatically, the least you can do is make me laugh.  The film fails at doing both.
Again, I don't think the film goes for straight comedy so much as it guns for incredulous, disbelieving laughter. Shawn is so completely delusional that we have a hard time believing he's a real person, until we see the excerpts in the credits and it makes it all the more ridiculous. The humor stems partially from the fact that this is a true story, and that it so wildly juxtaposes the world of ice skating with abuse, crime, and extreme profanity. As someone who was familiar with Tonya Harding before the film, I'd always wanted to see her story told right, and this is exactly what I was hoping for. It juggles its tones admirably, and you really can't do much better when telling this particular story.

-Watching this, I felt like it was trying to be a pale imitator of a better film, and I didn't really know what it was until I finally gave Goodfellas a watch a few days ago.  I thought Goodfellas was great, and all it did was make me dislike this film even less for being a film that so clearly aspires to be it but can never become it.  That's cool if you're inspired by Goodfellas to make a film, but if you're gonna be influenced by it, at least try not to make their similarities so glaringly obvious.
I can't fathom what you mean by this comment. Yes, people have said that it mimics Scorsese. But aside from the tone, there's practically no comparisons to draw. As a matter of fact, a lot of your complaints here-- trivializing abuse, to name one-- can be applied to Goodfellas as well. I just don't know what you thought you were getting into when you saw this.

-Nancy Kerrigan should've been given more development, plain and simple.  All she does is scream after her knee cap gets busted in.  We never know more about her relationship with Tonya, never know more about her as a person, etc.  She's reduced to a plot device, and so when her knee cap gets fucked, we feel nothing.  I wanted to know more about her, but instead she's just swept under the rug.
Nancy has had her day in the sun. She was fawned over for years as a poor, brittle angel. Leaving her out of this was completely the right choice-- the focus should be on Tonya, because hers is the perspective that was left by the wayside during the media frenzy.

In addition, I'd just say that this film rehabilitates someone who was the victim of serious mistreatment all her life, from her family and from the millions of people who blindly hated her because the TV told them to. She has always had my utmost sympathy and I'm really thankful people are starting to come to terms with how poorly they conducted themselves during those months. And the soundtrack kicks ass.
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Crohn's Boy

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Re: 2017 Nominations
« Reply #35 on: February 19, 2018, 10:58:51 am »
I wouldn't call that a quip so much as a way of illustrating how the mother didn't take the abuse seriously whatsoever, and didn't recognize how much she was damaging her daughter. It's not intended to be laugh-out-loud funny, but it does elicit some incredulous, awkward laughter because that's the only way to deal with the reality of Tonya's life. This sounds like John's bogus complaint about comedies being "mean-spirited," when in actuality the film is quite cathartic without taking itself too seriously.

If they wanted to illustrate that, then I think they should've placed that elsewhere instead of 10 seconds after a horrifying scene of abuse.  I'm not buying that it isn't intended to be laugh out loud funny, it got more laughter than any other scene from my audience.  What I think happened is they were trying to balance a darkly comedic tone and a more dramatic tone and couldn't find the right combination without the two tones clashing with each other.

Moody, this was as far from an Oscar-bait film as you can possibly get, plain and simple. Yeah, the Academy loves its biopics, but this film had morally grey characters and a lot of "mean-spirited" comedy that does not play well with Academy types. I'd say that those performances are intentionally shallow on the surface, because those characters hide who they are under layers of indifference, malice, and abuse, which makes it all the more emotionally wrenching when their true selves come through. The scene in the courtroom at the end breaks Tonya's exterior, and it's one of the most emotional scenes of the year.

I'm not necessarily calling the film itself Oscar bait, but Robbie's and Janney's performances definitely both felt like it to me.  And considering Robbie got nominated and Janney is essentially locked to win, it seems like it worked.  And I didn't really see their performances as being "intentionally shallow."  I think the only scenes where their "true selves come through" is the aforementioned courtroom scene and that conversation that Tonya and her mother have with the media outside of their house, and both happen towards the end of the film.  Everything else from their performance just felt one-note to me.

Again, I don't think the film goes for straight comedy so much as it guns for incredulous, disbelieving laughter. Shawn is so completely delusional that we have a hard time believing he's a real person, until we see the excerpts in the credits and it makes it all the more ridiculous. The humor stems partially from the fact that this is a true story, and that it so wildly juxtaposes the world of ice skating with abuse, crime, and extreme profanity. As someone who was familiar with Tonya Harding before the film, I'd always wanted to see her story told right, and this is exactly what I was hoping for. It juggles its tones admirably, and you really can't do much better when telling this particular story.

And I'm completely fine with the film going for that type of humor.  If it wants to show how ridiculous it was that this is a true story, then that's fine.  This does not change the fact that the film was not funny to me.  Most of this is subjective, and it's hard to argue back and forth when it comes to whether or not something makes you laugh, so let's just agree to disagree here.

I can't fathom what you mean by this comment. Yes, people have said that it mimics Scorsese. But aside from the tone, there's practically no comparisons to draw. As a matter of fact, a lot of your complaints here-- trivializing abuse, to name one-- can be applied to Goodfellas as well. I just don't know what you thought you were getting into when you saw this.

In Goodfellas, abuse wasn't an overarching theme of the plot and was pretty much narrowed down to only a few scenes.  I, Tonya has it as a major plot point.  They put so much emphasis on the abuse that if they don't handle it well, then the film suffers for it.  And honestly, it's not just the fact that it seems to mimic Scorsese.  It's the fact that it does it so poorly.  As I've said, it feels like it's trying to imitate something greater, and I couldn't shake that feeling off me when I watched this.

Nancy has had her day in the sun. She was fawned over for years as a poor, brittle angel. Leaving her out of this was completely the right choice-- the focus should be on Tonya, because hers is the perspective that was left by the wayside during the media frenzy.

Nancy had a clear connection to Tonya though.  It was shown that they were really good friends, but it's only shown through a brief montage that's over in like 20 seconds.  That would've been a neat relationship to explore, especially considering we know what eventually happens to Nancy.  They don't have to dedicate entire scenes to just her, but at least show her and Tonya interacting aside from a brief montage.
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Charles Longboat Jr.

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Re: 2017 Nominations
« Reply #36 on: February 19, 2018, 11:11:41 am »
Pribably an out of place jab but Margot Robbie's scene with the mirror in I, Tonya is a much better display of minimalist acting than Rooney Mara's pie gorging could ever hope to be.

Tut

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Re: 2017 Nominations
« Reply #37 on: February 19, 2018, 01:09:27 pm »
I wouldn't call that a quip so much as a way of illustrating how the mother didn't take the abuse seriously whatsoever, and didn't recognize how much she was damaging her daughter. It's not intended to be laugh-out-loud funny, but it does elicit some incredulous, awkward laughter because that's the only way to deal with the reality of Tonya's life. This sounds like John's bogus complaint about comedies being "mean-spirited," when in actuality the film is quite cathartic without taking itself too seriously.

If they wanted to illustrate that, then I think they should've placed that elsewhere instead of 10 seconds after a horrifying scene of abuse.  I'm not buying that it isn't intended to be laugh out loud funny, it got more laughter than any other scene from my audience.  What I think happened is they were trying to balance a darkly comedic tone and a more dramatic tone and couldn't find the right combination without the two tones clashing with each other.

Moody, this was as far from an Oscar-bait film as you can possibly get, plain and simple. Yeah, the Academy loves its biopics, but this film had morally grey characters and a lot of "mean-spirited" comedy that does not play well with Academy types. I'd say that those performances are intentionally shallow on the surface, because those characters hide who they are under layers of indifference, malice, and abuse, which makes it all the more emotionally wrenching when their true selves come through. The scene in the courtroom at the end breaks Tonya's exterior, and it's one of the most emotional scenes of the year.

I'm not necessarily calling the film itself Oscar bait, but Robbie's and Janney's performances definitely both felt like it to me.  And considering Robbie got nominated and Janney is essentially locked to win, it seems like it worked.  And I didn't really see their performances as being "intentionally shallow."  I think the only scenes where their "true selves come through" is the aforementioned courtroom scene and that conversation that Tonya and her mother have with the media outside of their house, and both happen towards the end of the film.  Everything else from their performance just felt one-note to me.

Again, I don't think the film goes for straight comedy so much as it guns for incredulous, disbelieving laughter. Shawn is so completely delusional that we have a hard time believing he's a real person, until we see the excerpts in the credits and it makes it all the more ridiculous. The humor stems partially from the fact that this is a true story, and that it so wildly juxtaposes the world of ice skating with abuse, crime, and extreme profanity. As someone who was familiar with Tonya Harding before the film, I'd always wanted to see her story told right, and this is exactly what I was hoping for. It juggles its tones admirably, and you really can't do much better when telling this particular story.

And I'm completely fine with the film going for that type of humor.  If it wants to show how ridiculous it was that this is a true story, then that's fine.  This does not change the fact that the film was not funny to me.  Most of this is subjective, and it's hard to argue back and forth when it comes to whether or not something makes you laugh, so let's just agree to disagree here.

I can't fathom what you mean by this comment. Yes, people have said that it mimics Scorsese. But aside from the tone, there's practically no comparisons to draw. As a matter of fact, a lot of your complaints here-- trivializing abuse, to name one-- can be applied to Goodfellas as well. I just don't know what you thought you were getting into when you saw this.

In Goodfellas, abuse wasn't an overarching theme of the plot and was pretty much narrowed down to only a few scenes.  I, Tonya has it as a major plot point.  They put so much emphasis on the abuse that if they don't handle it well, then the film suffers for it.  And honestly, it's not just the fact that it seems to mimic Scorsese.  It's the fact that it does it so poorly.  As I've said, it feels like it's trying to imitate something greater, and I couldn't shake that feeling off me when I watched this.

Nancy has had her day in the sun. She was fawned over for years as a poor, brittle angel. Leaving her out of this was completely the right choice-- the focus should be on Tonya, because hers is the perspective that was left by the wayside during the media frenzy.

Nancy had a clear connection to Tonya though.  It was shown that they were really good friends, but it's only shown through a brief montage that's over in like 20 seconds.  That would've been a neat relationship to explore, especially considering we know what eventually happens to Nancy.  They don't have to dedicate entire scenes to just her, but at least show her and Tonya interacting aside from a brief montage.

Dude, when I think "Oscar bait," I think of a stuffy British actor like Cucumberbatch playing a gay, a transgender, or someone with a disability. Honestly, that phrase has lost all meaning if we're applying it to I, Tonya now. I would honestly say that Robbie and Janney had more in common with James Franco's performance as Tommy Wiseau than with any typical "Oscar bait" performances, and no way was Franco Oscar bait. Their performances were dark and unrepentantly selfish, and those are not qualities the Academy typically rewards.

Also, they weren't trying to "blend" the tones at all. This is just plain and simple fact given how the film is edited. It hard cuts from the abuse scenes to Janney's dismissive remarks, meaning that it's deliberately emphasizing that contrast rather than trying to deaden the blow. Perhaps it didn't work for you (though I still think you're taking it way too seriously), but this is clearly the angle the filmmakers were going for. I personally think violent child abuse is funny as hell, so it worked for me.

The film definitely apes off of Scorsese's style, but the way it applies it to this particular subject matter is what makes it so unique. As someone who's sick of biopics, seeing a film like this that actually manages to innovate on the genre is a breath of fresh air. Biopics-- especially sports biopics-- are often bland as hell, with only one interesting performance and dull, flat cinematography. I, Tonya completely twists that on its head. And again, it's the juxtaposition of the elegance of figure-skating with the brutality of Tonya's life outside the rink that makes the story work.

I still think it was the right decision to leave Nancy out of the equation. We really don't need to know about her personality-- regardless of who she is, we know she doesn't deserve what happens to her. Simultaneously, we also understand that this is not her story. She is simply an additional factor in Tonya's life who ends up being brought to the forefront of the media firestorm, and developing her any further detracts from Tonya's experience. Again, her side of the story is the one we've been hearing for years.
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Re: 2017 Nominations
« Reply #38 on: February 24, 2018, 11:44:29 pm »
It's in my top 100 of the year.
Speaking of which, I'm currently working on a video paying tribute to said top 100.
Here it is:
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Upcoming 2018 Releases You're Looking Forward To by Crohn's Boy
August 01, 2018, 12:24:08 am

The Official Album Listening Thread by Charles Longboat Jr.
July 31, 2018, 05:14:14 pm

The 2018 US Midterms and Goober-natorial Elections Thread by Tut
July 30, 2018, 05:59:00 pm

What song are you listening to - Part II by Robert Neville
July 30, 2018, 05:07:24 pm