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Poll

Should this girl be convicted of manslaughter?

Guilty
Not Guilty

Author Topic: Let's talk about this court case  (Read 439 times)

cupcake

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Re: Let's talk about this court case
« Reply #80 on: June 23, 2017, 03:23:22 pm »

If we're to believe that this is a manslaughter case, and the girl committed a murder, then how can this be a suicide? Did the boy kill himself, or did the girl kill him? You cannot have it both ways.

What about the girl who had cancer and wanted to commit suicide through euthanasia?  Technically, she didn't kill herself, but it was still classified as suicide because she was willing.  Shit, Kevorkian got years for that.

I am unclear on the specifics of that case. Still, as someone who believes assisted suicide should be legal, I'd probably have similar complaints about it. I have no problem with Kevorkian-- he believed in the individual's right to self-determination, including their right to end their own life. There's a difference between that and, say, denying cancer treatments for people over the age of 75 (which actually fits the definition of "involuntary manslaughter" much better than what Michelle Carter did).

All I'm saying is that at times suicide and murder have a very thin line between them.  I don't agree as much with a manslaughter charge as with a charge in gross negligence or such.  After all, she gave him specifically directions on how to kill himself. 

Did she though? I'm legitimately asking here. I hadn't heard that she'd given him directions on how to actually perform the act. In that case, she could be charged as an accessory in some capacity. But every article I've read has said that she simply encouraged him.

Regardless, it's good to know that we're in agreement on this not being manslaughter. My impression of manslaughter is that it requires a cause-and-effect chain of events that cannot be interrupted by the victim's own free will. Suicide is inherently an act of free will; therefore, this could not have been manslaughter.
Here's one of the messages they had:

Carter: "So I guess you aren't gonna do it then, all that for nothing"
Carter: "I'm just confused like you were so ready and determined"
Roy: "I am gonna eventually"
Roy: "I really don't know what I'm waiting for. . but I have everything lined up"
Carter: "No, you're not, Conrad. Last night was it. You keep pushing it off and you say you'll do it but u never do. Its always gonna be that way if u don't take action"
Carter: "You're just making it harder on yourself by pushing it off, you just have to do it"
Carter: "Do u wanna do it now?"
Roy: "Is it too late?"
Roy: "Idkk it's already light outside"
Roy: I'm gonna go back to sleep, love you I'll text you tomorrow"
Carter: "No? Its probably the best time now because everyone's sleeping. Just go somewhere in your truck. And no one's really out right now because it's an awkward time"
Carter: "If u don't do it now you're never gonna do it"
Carter: "And u can say you'll do it tomorrow but you probably won't"
Carter: "You just need to do it Conrad or I'm gonna get you help"
Carter: "You can't keep doing this everyday"
Roy: "Okay I'm gonna do it today"
Carter: "Do you promise"
Roy: "I promise babe"
Roy: "I have to now"
Carter: "Like right now?"
Roy: "where do I go? :("
Carter: "And u can't break a promise. And just go in a quiet parking lot or something."

Here's a transcript of a majority of the texts.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/08/us/text-message-suicide-michelle-carter-conrad-roy/index.html

The most damning part is them having a conversation on how to produce CO and kill him painlessly. 
goodbye!

Frankie

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Re: Let's talk about this court case
« Reply #81 on: June 23, 2017, 03:40:38 pm »

If we're to believe that this is a manslaughter case, and the girl committed a murder, then how can this be a suicide? Did the boy kill himself, or did the girl kill him? You cannot have it both ways.

What about the girl who had cancer and wanted to commit suicide through euthanasia?  Technically, she didn't kill herself, but it was still classified as suicide because she was willing.  Shit, Kevorkian got years for that.

I am unclear on the specifics of that case. Still, as someone who believes assisted suicide should be legal, I'd probably have similar complaints about it. I have no problem with Kevorkian-- he believed in the individual's right to self-determination, including their right to end their own life. There's a difference between that and, say, denying cancer treatments for people over the age of 75 (which actually fits the definition of "involuntary manslaughter" much better than what Michelle Carter did).

All I'm saying is that at times suicide and murder have a very thin line between them.  I don't agree as much with a manslaughter charge as with a charge in gross negligence or such.  After all, she gave him specifically directions on how to kill himself. 

Did she though? I'm legitimately asking here. I hadn't heard that she'd given him directions on how to actually perform the act. In that case, she could be charged as an accessory in some capacity. But every article I've read has said that she simply encouraged him.

Regardless, it's good to know that we're in agreement on this not being manslaughter. My impression of manslaughter is that it requires a cause-and-effect chain of events that cannot be interrupted by the victim's own free will. Suicide is inherently an act of free will; therefore, this could not have been manslaughter.
Here's one of the messages they had:

Carter: "So I guess you aren't gonna do it then, all that for nothing"
Carter: "I'm just confused like you were so ready and determined"
Roy: "I am gonna eventually"
Roy: "I really don't know what I'm waiting for. . but I have everything lined up"
Carter: "No, you're not, Conrad. Last night was it. You keep pushing it off and you say you'll do it but u never do. Its always gonna be that way if u don't take action"
Carter: "You're just making it harder on yourself by pushing it off, you just have to do it"
Carter: "Do u wanna do it now?"
Roy: "Is it too late?"
Roy: "Idkk it's already light outside"
Roy: I'm gonna go back to sleep, love you I'll text you tomorrow"
Carter: "No? Its probably the best time now because everyone's sleeping. Just go somewhere in your truck. And no one's really out right now because it's an awkward time"
Carter: "If u don't do it now you're never gonna do it"
Carter: "And u can say you'll do it tomorrow but you probably won't"
Carter: "You just need to do it Conrad or I'm gonna get you help"
Carter: "You can't keep doing this everyday"
Roy: "Okay I'm gonna do it today"
Carter: "Do you promise"
Roy: "I promise babe"
Roy: "I have to now"
Carter: "Like right now?"
Roy: "where do I go? :("
Carter: "And u can't break a promise. And just go in a quiet parking lot or something."

Here's a transcript of a majority of the texts.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/08/us/text-message-suicide-michelle-carter-conrad-roy/index.html

The most damning part is them having a conversation on how to produce CO and kill him painlessly. 

She helped him commit suicide. She didn't kill him though, therefore the sentencing of manslaughter is ridiculous. She should get some time and maybe even some help (she's also mentally ill herself I believe), but to sentence her as the very reason he killed himself is a little over the top. He can't be blameless in this scenario, and in the case of other suicides. If someone commits suicide because they were bullied then the bully should receive some attention and maybe counseling but they shouldn't be convicted of manslaughter because they might have suggested for the person to kill themselves. The real person to blame is the one who made the decision to go through with it in the end and no one else.

She's getting thirty years for this though. Thirty years of her life because she helped him kill himself (not forced or coerced or even manipulation). Hell, she wasn't even there and had no hand in actually helping him prepare it, he did it all himself, all she did was help with some research and texts. This is the equivalent of shifting the majority of the blame on her and the judge effectively declared her as his killer (a guy who took his own life).

You guys find this a little bit overboard right? I mean just a little?

cupcake

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  • Location: Bryan Singer's lap
Re: Let's talk about this court case
« Reply #82 on: June 23, 2017, 03:42:51 pm »

If we're to believe that this is a manslaughter case, and the girl committed a murder, then how can this be a suicide? Did the boy kill himself, or did the girl kill him? You cannot have it both ways.

What about the girl who had cancer and wanted to commit suicide through euthanasia?  Technically, she didn't kill herself, but it was still classified as suicide because she was willing.  Shit, Kevorkian got years for that.

I am unclear on the specifics of that case. Still, as someone who believes assisted suicide should be legal, I'd probably have similar complaints about it. I have no problem with Kevorkian-- he believed in the individual's right to self-determination, including their right to end their own life. There's a difference between that and, say, denying cancer treatments for people over the age of 75 (which actually fits the definition of "involuntary manslaughter" much better than what Michelle Carter did).

All I'm saying is that at times suicide and murder have a very thin line between them.  I don't agree as much with a manslaughter charge as with a charge in gross negligence or such.  After all, she gave him specifically directions on how to kill himself. 

Did she though? I'm legitimately asking here. I hadn't heard that she'd given him directions on how to actually perform the act. In that case, she could be charged as an accessory in some capacity. But every article I've read has said that she simply encouraged him.

Regardless, it's good to know that we're in agreement on this not being manslaughter. My impression of manslaughter is that it requires a cause-and-effect chain of events that cannot be interrupted by the victim's own free will. Suicide is inherently an act of free will; therefore, this could not have been manslaughter.
Here's one of the messages they had:

Carter: "So I guess you aren't gonna do it then, all that for nothing"
Carter: "I'm just confused like you were so ready and determined"
Roy: "I am gonna eventually"
Roy: "I really don't know what I'm waiting for. . but I have everything lined up"
Carter: "No, you're not, Conrad. Last night was it. You keep pushing it off and you say you'll do it but u never do. Its always gonna be that way if u don't take action"
Carter: "You're just making it harder on yourself by pushing it off, you just have to do it"
Carter: "Do u wanna do it now?"
Roy: "Is it too late?"
Roy: "Idkk it's already light outside"
Roy: I'm gonna go back to sleep, love you I'll text you tomorrow"
Carter: "No? Its probably the best time now because everyone's sleeping. Just go somewhere in your truck. And no one's really out right now because it's an awkward time"
Carter: "If u don't do it now you're never gonna do it"
Carter: "And u can say you'll do it tomorrow but you probably won't"
Carter: "You just need to do it Conrad or I'm gonna get you help"
Carter: "You can't keep doing this everyday"
Roy: "Okay I'm gonna do it today"
Carter: "Do you promise"
Roy: "I promise babe"
Roy: "I have to now"
Carter: "Like right now?"
Roy: "where do I go? :("
Carter: "And u can't break a promise. And just go in a quiet parking lot or something."

Here's a transcript of a majority of the texts.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/08/us/text-message-suicide-michelle-carter-conrad-roy/index.html

The most damning part is them having a conversation on how to produce CO and kill him painlessly. 

She helped him commit suicide. She didn't kill him though, therefore the sentencing of manslaughter is ridiculous. She should get some time and maybe even some help (she's also mentally ill herself I believe), but to sentence her as the very reason he killed himself is a little over the top. He can't be blameless in this scenario, and in the case of other suicides. If someone commits suicide because they were bullied then the bully should receive some attention and maybe counseling but they shouldn't be convicted of manslaughter because they might have suggested for the person to kill themselves. The real person to blame is the one who made the decision to go through with it in the end and no one else.

She's getting thirty years for this though. Thirty years of her life because she helped him kill himself (not forced or coerced or even manipulation). Hell, she wasn't even there and had no hand in actually helping him prepare it, he did it all himself, all she did was help with some research and texts. This is the equivalent of shifting the majority of the blame on her and the judge effectively declared her as his killer (a guy who took his own life).

You guys find this a little bit overboard right? I mean just a little?

Jesus Christ, Frank, I answered this two comments up.
goodbye!

Frankie

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  • Paul Thomas Anderson
  • **********
  • Posts: 6702
Re: Let's talk about this court case
« Reply #83 on: June 23, 2017, 03:44:18 pm »

If we're to believe that this is a manslaughter case, and the girl committed a murder, then how can this be a suicide? Did the boy kill himself, or did the girl kill him? You cannot have it both ways.

What about the girl who had cancer and wanted to commit suicide through euthanasia?  Technically, she didn't kill herself, but it was still classified as suicide because she was willing.  Shit, Kevorkian got years for that.

I am unclear on the specifics of that case. Still, as someone who believes assisted suicide should be legal, I'd probably have similar complaints about it. I have no problem with Kevorkian-- he believed in the individual's right to self-determination, including their right to end their own life. There's a difference between that and, say, denying cancer treatments for people over the age of 75 (which actually fits the definition of "involuntary manslaughter" much better than what Michelle Carter did).

All I'm saying is that at times suicide and murder have a very thin line between them.  I don't agree as much with a manslaughter charge as with a charge in gross negligence or such.  After all, she gave him specifically directions on how to kill himself. 

Did she though? I'm legitimately asking here. I hadn't heard that she'd given him directions on how to actually perform the act. In that case, she could be charged as an accessory in some capacity. But every article I've read has said that she simply encouraged him.

Regardless, it's good to know that we're in agreement on this not being manslaughter. My impression of manslaughter is that it requires a cause-and-effect chain of events that cannot be interrupted by the victim's own free will. Suicide is inherently an act of free will; therefore, this could not have been manslaughter.
Here's one of the messages they had:

Carter: "So I guess you aren't gonna do it then, all that for nothing"
Carter: "I'm just confused like you were so ready and determined"
Roy: "I am gonna eventually"
Roy: "I really don't know what I'm waiting for. . but I have everything lined up"
Carter: "No, you're not, Conrad. Last night was it. You keep pushing it off and you say you'll do it but u never do. Its always gonna be that way if u don't take action"
Carter: "You're just making it harder on yourself by pushing it off, you just have to do it"
Carter: "Do u wanna do it now?"
Roy: "Is it too late?"
Roy: "Idkk it's already light outside"
Roy: I'm gonna go back to sleep, love you I'll text you tomorrow"
Carter: "No? Its probably the best time now because everyone's sleeping. Just go somewhere in your truck. And no one's really out right now because it's an awkward time"
Carter: "If u don't do it now you're never gonna do it"
Carter: "And u can say you'll do it tomorrow but you probably won't"
Carter: "You just need to do it Conrad or I'm gonna get you help"
Carter: "You can't keep doing this everyday"
Roy: "Okay I'm gonna do it today"
Carter: "Do you promise"
Roy: "I promise babe"
Roy: "I have to now"
Carter: "Like right now?"
Roy: "where do I go? :("
Carter: "And u can't break a promise. And just go in a quiet parking lot or something."

Here's a transcript of a majority of the texts.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/08/us/text-message-suicide-michelle-carter-conrad-roy/index.html

The most damning part is them having a conversation on how to produce CO and kill him painlessly. 

She helped him commit suicide. She didn't kill him though, therefore the sentencing of manslaughter is ridiculous. She should get some time and maybe even some help (she's also mentally ill herself I believe), but to sentence her as the very reason he killed himself is a little over the top. He can't be blameless in this scenario, and in the case of other suicides. If someone commits suicide because they were bullied then the bully should receive some attention and maybe counseling but they shouldn't be convicted of manslaughter because they might have suggested for the person to kill themselves. The real person to blame is the one who made the decision to go through with it in the end and no one else.

She's getting thirty years for this though. Thirty years of her life because she helped him kill himself (not forced or coerced or even manipulation). Hell, she wasn't even there and had no hand in actually helping him prepare it, he did it all himself, all she did was help with some research and texts. This is the equivalent of shifting the majority of the blame on her and the judge effectively declared her as his killer (a guy who took his own life).

You guys find this a little bit overboard right? I mean just a little?

Jesus Christ, Frank, I answered this two comments up.

I'm not referring to you, I'm referring to people who agree with the sentencing.

cupcake

  • Alfred Hitchcock
  • **********
  • Posts: 9418
  • Hello
  • Location: Bryan Singer's lap
Re: Let's talk about this court case
« Reply #84 on: June 23, 2017, 03:45:40 pm »

If we're to believe that this is a manslaughter case, and the girl committed a murder, then how can this be a suicide? Did the boy kill himself, or did the girl kill him? You cannot have it both ways.

What about the girl who had cancer and wanted to commit suicide through euthanasia?  Technically, she didn't kill herself, but it was still classified as suicide because she was willing.  Shit, Kevorkian got years for that.

I am unclear on the specifics of that case. Still, as someone who believes assisted suicide should be legal, I'd probably have similar complaints about it. I have no problem with Kevorkian-- he believed in the individual's right to self-determination, including their right to end their own life. There's a difference between that and, say, denying cancer treatments for people over the age of 75 (which actually fits the definition of "involuntary manslaughter" much better than what Michelle Carter did).

All I'm saying is that at times suicide and murder have a very thin line between them.  I don't agree as much with a manslaughter charge as with a charge in gross negligence or such.  After all, she gave him specifically directions on how to kill himself. 

Did she though? I'm legitimately asking here. I hadn't heard that she'd given him directions on how to actually perform the act. In that case, she could be charged as an accessory in some capacity. But every article I've read has said that she simply encouraged him.

Regardless, it's good to know that we're in agreement on this not being manslaughter. My impression of manslaughter is that it requires a cause-and-effect chain of events that cannot be interrupted by the victim's own free will. Suicide is inherently an act of free will; therefore, this could not have been manslaughter.
Here's one of the messages they had:

Carter: "So I guess you aren't gonna do it then, all that for nothing"
Carter: "I'm just confused like you were so ready and determined"
Roy: "I am gonna eventually"
Roy: "I really don't know what I'm waiting for. . but I have everything lined up"
Carter: "No, you're not, Conrad. Last night was it. You keep pushing it off and you say you'll do it but u never do. Its always gonna be that way if u don't take action"
Carter: "You're just making it harder on yourself by pushing it off, you just have to do it"
Carter: "Do u wanna do it now?"
Roy: "Is it too late?"
Roy: "Idkk it's already light outside"
Roy: I'm gonna go back to sleep, love you I'll text you tomorrow"
Carter: "No? Its probably the best time now because everyone's sleeping. Just go somewhere in your truck. And no one's really out right now because it's an awkward time"
Carter: "If u don't do it now you're never gonna do it"
Carter: "And u can say you'll do it tomorrow but you probably won't"
Carter: "You just need to do it Conrad or I'm gonna get you help"
Carter: "You can't keep doing this everyday"
Roy: "Okay I'm gonna do it today"
Carter: "Do you promise"
Roy: "I promise babe"
Roy: "I have to now"
Carter: "Like right now?"
Roy: "where do I go? :("
Carter: "And u can't break a promise. And just go in a quiet parking lot or something."

Here's a transcript of a majority of the texts.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/08/us/text-message-suicide-michelle-carter-conrad-roy/index.html

The most damning part is them having a conversation on how to produce CO and kill him painlessly. 

She helped him commit suicide. She didn't kill him though, therefore the sentencing of manslaughter is ridiculous. She should get some time and maybe even some help (she's also mentally ill herself I believe), but to sentence her as the very reason he killed himself is a little over the top. He can't be blameless in this scenario, and in the case of other suicides. If someone commits suicide because they were bullied then the bully should receive some attention and maybe counseling but they shouldn't be convicted of manslaughter because they might have suggested for the person to kill themselves. The real person to blame is the one who made the decision to go through with it in the end and no one else.

She's getting thirty years for this though. Thirty years of her life because she helped him kill himself (not forced or coerced or even manipulation). Hell, she wasn't even there and had no hand in actually helping him prepare it, he did it all himself, all she did was help with some research and texts. This is the equivalent of shifting the majority of the blame on her and the judge effectively declared her as his killer (a guy who took his own life).

You guys find this a little bit overboard right? I mean just a little?

Jesus Christ, Frank, I answered this two comments up.

I'm not referring to you, I'm referring to people who agree with the sentencing.

Which, by the looks of this thread, is like 2 people at most.  Go post this on reddit or something.
goodbye!

Frankie

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  • Paul Thomas Anderson
  • **********
  • Posts: 6702
Re: Let's talk about this court case
« Reply #85 on: June 23, 2017, 03:48:54 pm »

If we're to believe that this is a manslaughter case, and the girl committed a murder, then how can this be a suicide? Did the boy kill himself, or did the girl kill him? You cannot have it both ways.

What about the girl who had cancer and wanted to commit suicide through euthanasia?  Technically, she didn't kill herself, but it was still classified as suicide because she was willing.  Shit, Kevorkian got years for that.

I am unclear on the specifics of that case. Still, as someone who believes assisted suicide should be legal, I'd probably have similar complaints about it. I have no problem with Kevorkian-- he believed in the individual's right to self-determination, including their right to end their own life. There's a difference between that and, say, denying cancer treatments for people over the age of 75 (which actually fits the definition of "involuntary manslaughter" much better than what Michelle Carter did).

All I'm saying is that at times suicide and murder have a very thin line between them.  I don't agree as much with a manslaughter charge as with a charge in gross negligence or such.  After all, she gave him specifically directions on how to kill himself. 

Did she though? I'm legitimately asking here. I hadn't heard that she'd given him directions on how to actually perform the act. In that case, she could be charged as an accessory in some capacity. But every article I've read has said that she simply encouraged him.

Regardless, it's good to know that we're in agreement on this not being manslaughter. My impression of manslaughter is that it requires a cause-and-effect chain of events that cannot be interrupted by the victim's own free will. Suicide is inherently an act of free will; therefore, this could not have been manslaughter.
Here's one of the messages they had:

Carter: "So I guess you aren't gonna do it then, all that for nothing"
Carter: "I'm just confused like you were so ready and determined"
Roy: "I am gonna eventually"
Roy: "I really don't know what I'm waiting for. . but I have everything lined up"
Carter: "No, you're not, Conrad. Last night was it. You keep pushing it off and you say you'll do it but u never do. Its always gonna be that way if u don't take action"
Carter: "You're just making it harder on yourself by pushing it off, you just have to do it"
Carter: "Do u wanna do it now?"
Roy: "Is it too late?"
Roy: "Idkk it's already light outside"
Roy: I'm gonna go back to sleep, love you I'll text you tomorrow"
Carter: "No? Its probably the best time now because everyone's sleeping. Just go somewhere in your truck. And no one's really out right now because it's an awkward time"
Carter: "If u don't do it now you're never gonna do it"
Carter: "And u can say you'll do it tomorrow but you probably won't"
Carter: "You just need to do it Conrad or I'm gonna get you help"
Carter: "You can't keep doing this everyday"
Roy: "Okay I'm gonna do it today"
Carter: "Do you promise"
Roy: "I promise babe"
Roy: "I have to now"
Carter: "Like right now?"
Roy: "where do I go? :("
Carter: "And u can't break a promise. And just go in a quiet parking lot or something."

Here's a transcript of a majority of the texts.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/08/us/text-message-suicide-michelle-carter-conrad-roy/index.html

The most damning part is them having a conversation on how to produce CO and kill him painlessly. 

She helped him commit suicide. She didn't kill him though, therefore the sentencing of manslaughter is ridiculous. She should get some time and maybe even some help (she's also mentally ill herself I believe), but to sentence her as the very reason he killed himself is a little over the top. He can't be blameless in this scenario, and in the case of other suicides. If someone commits suicide because they were bullied then the bully should receive some attention and maybe counseling but they shouldn't be convicted of manslaughter because they might have suggested for the person to kill themselves. The real person to blame is the one who made the decision to go through with it in the end and no one else.

She's getting thirty years for this though. Thirty years of her life because she helped him kill himself (not forced or coerced or even manipulation). Hell, she wasn't even there and had no hand in actually helping him prepare it, he did it all himself, all she did was help with some research and texts. This is the equivalent of shifting the majority of the blame on her and the judge effectively declared her as his killer (a guy who took his own life).

You guys find this a little bit overboard right? I mean just a little?

Jesus Christ, Frank, I answered this two comments up.

I'm not referring to you, I'm referring to people who agree with the sentencing.

Which, by the looks of this thread, is like 2 people at most.  Go post this on reddit or something.

With the amount of people that still post on the forum, I consider that a good amount.

cupcake

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  • **********
  • Posts: 9418
  • Hello
  • Location: Bryan Singer's lap
Re: Let's talk about this court case
« Reply #86 on: June 23, 2017, 03:51:23 pm »

If we're to believe that this is a manslaughter case, and the girl committed a murder, then how can this be a suicide? Did the boy kill himself, or did the girl kill him? You cannot have it both ways.

What about the girl who had cancer and wanted to commit suicide through euthanasia?  Technically, she didn't kill herself, but it was still classified as suicide because she was willing.  Shit, Kevorkian got years for that.

I am unclear on the specifics of that case. Still, as someone who believes assisted suicide should be legal, I'd probably have similar complaints about it. I have no problem with Kevorkian-- he believed in the individual's right to self-determination, including their right to end their own life. There's a difference between that and, say, denying cancer treatments for people over the age of 75 (which actually fits the definition of "involuntary manslaughter" much better than what Michelle Carter did).

All I'm saying is that at times suicide and murder have a very thin line between them.  I don't agree as much with a manslaughter charge as with a charge in gross negligence or such.  After all, she gave him specifically directions on how to kill himself. 

Did she though? I'm legitimately asking here. I hadn't heard that she'd given him directions on how to actually perform the act. In that case, she could be charged as an accessory in some capacity. But every article I've read has said that she simply encouraged him.

Regardless, it's good to know that we're in agreement on this not being manslaughter. My impression of manslaughter is that it requires a cause-and-effect chain of events that cannot be interrupted by the victim's own free will. Suicide is inherently an act of free will; therefore, this could not have been manslaughter.
Here's one of the messages they had:

Carter: "So I guess you aren't gonna do it then, all that for nothing"
Carter: "I'm just confused like you were so ready and determined"
Roy: "I am gonna eventually"
Roy: "I really don't know what I'm waiting for. . but I have everything lined up"
Carter: "No, you're not, Conrad. Last night was it. You keep pushing it off and you say you'll do it but u never do. Its always gonna be that way if u don't take action"
Carter: "You're just making it harder on yourself by pushing it off, you just have to do it"
Carter: "Do u wanna do it now?"
Roy: "Is it too late?"
Roy: "Idkk it's already light outside"
Roy: I'm gonna go back to sleep, love you I'll text you tomorrow"
Carter: "No? Its probably the best time now because everyone's sleeping. Just go somewhere in your truck. And no one's really out right now because it's an awkward time"
Carter: "If u don't do it now you're never gonna do it"
Carter: "And u can say you'll do it tomorrow but you probably won't"
Carter: "You just need to do it Conrad or I'm gonna get you help"
Carter: "You can't keep doing this everyday"
Roy: "Okay I'm gonna do it today"
Carter: "Do you promise"
Roy: "I promise babe"
Roy: "I have to now"
Carter: "Like right now?"
Roy: "where do I go? :("
Carter: "And u can't break a promise. And just go in a quiet parking lot or something."

Here's a transcript of a majority of the texts.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/08/us/text-message-suicide-michelle-carter-conrad-roy/index.html

The most damning part is them having a conversation on how to produce CO and kill him painlessly. 

She helped him commit suicide. She didn't kill him though, therefore the sentencing of manslaughter is ridiculous. She should get some time and maybe even some help (she's also mentally ill herself I believe), but to sentence her as the very reason he killed himself is a little over the top. He can't be blameless in this scenario, and in the case of other suicides. If someone commits suicide because they were bullied then the bully should receive some attention and maybe counseling but they shouldn't be convicted of manslaughter because they might have suggested for the person to kill themselves. The real person to blame is the one who made the decision to go through with it in the end and no one else.

She's getting thirty years for this though. Thirty years of her life because she helped him kill himself (not forced or coerced or even manipulation). Hell, she wasn't even there and had no hand in actually helping him prepare it, he did it all himself, all she did was help with some research and texts. This is the equivalent of shifting the majority of the blame on her and the judge effectively declared her as his killer (a guy who took his own life).

You guys find this a little bit overboard right? I mean just a little?

Jesus Christ, Frank, I answered this two comments up.

I'm not referring to you, I'm referring to people who agree with the sentencing.

Which, by the looks of this thread, is like 2 people at most.  Go post this on reddit or something.

With the amount of people that still post on the forum, I consider that a good amount.

goodbye!

Frankie

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Re: Let's talk about this court case
« Reply #87 on: June 23, 2017, 03:54:12 pm »

If we're to believe that this is a manslaughter case, and the girl committed a murder, then how can this be a suicide? Did the boy kill himself, or did the girl kill him? You cannot have it both ways.

What about the girl who had cancer and wanted to commit suicide through euthanasia?  Technically, she didn't kill herself, but it was still classified as suicide because she was willing.  Shit, Kevorkian got years for that.

I am unclear on the specifics of that case. Still, as someone who believes assisted suicide should be legal, I'd probably have similar complaints about it. I have no problem with Kevorkian-- he believed in the individual's right to self-determination, including their right to end their own life. There's a difference between that and, say, denying cancer treatments for people over the age of 75 (which actually fits the definition of "involuntary manslaughter" much better than what Michelle Carter did).

All I'm saying is that at times suicide and murder have a very thin line between them.  I don't agree as much with a manslaughter charge as with a charge in gross negligence or such.  After all, she gave him specifically directions on how to kill himself. 

Did she though? I'm legitimately asking here. I hadn't heard that she'd given him directions on how to actually perform the act. In that case, she could be charged as an accessory in some capacity. But every article I've read has said that she simply encouraged him.

Regardless, it's good to know that we're in agreement on this not being manslaughter. My impression of manslaughter is that it requires a cause-and-effect chain of events that cannot be interrupted by the victim's own free will. Suicide is inherently an act of free will; therefore, this could not have been manslaughter.
Here's one of the messages they had:

Carter: "So I guess you aren't gonna do it then, all that for nothing"
Carter: "I'm just confused like you were so ready and determined"
Roy: "I am gonna eventually"
Roy: "I really don't know what I'm waiting for. . but I have everything lined up"
Carter: "No, you're not, Conrad. Last night was it. You keep pushing it off and you say you'll do it but u never do. Its always gonna be that way if u don't take action"
Carter: "You're just making it harder on yourself by pushing it off, you just have to do it"
Carter: "Do u wanna do it now?"
Roy: "Is it too late?"
Roy: "Idkk it's already light outside"
Roy: I'm gonna go back to sleep, love you I'll text you tomorrow"
Carter: "No? Its probably the best time now because everyone's sleeping. Just go somewhere in your truck. And no one's really out right now because it's an awkward time"
Carter: "If u don't do it now you're never gonna do it"
Carter: "And u can say you'll do it tomorrow but you probably won't"
Carter: "You just need to do it Conrad or I'm gonna get you help"
Carter: "You can't keep doing this everyday"
Roy: "Okay I'm gonna do it today"
Carter: "Do you promise"
Roy: "I promise babe"
Roy: "I have to now"
Carter: "Like right now?"
Roy: "where do I go? :("
Carter: "And u can't break a promise. And just go in a quiet parking lot or something."

Here's a transcript of a majority of the texts.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/08/us/text-message-suicide-michelle-carter-conrad-roy/index.html

The most damning part is them having a conversation on how to produce CO and kill him painlessly. 

She helped him commit suicide. She didn't kill him though, therefore the sentencing of manslaughter is ridiculous. She should get some time and maybe even some help (she's also mentally ill herself I believe), but to sentence her as the very reason he killed himself is a little over the top. He can't be blameless in this scenario, and in the case of other suicides. If someone commits suicide because they were bullied then the bully should receive some attention and maybe counseling but they shouldn't be convicted of manslaughter because they might have suggested for the person to kill themselves. The real person to blame is the one who made the decision to go through with it in the end and no one else.

She's getting thirty years for this though. Thirty years of her life because she helped him kill himself (not forced or coerced or even manipulation). Hell, she wasn't even there and had no hand in actually helping him prepare it, he did it all himself, all she did was help with some research and texts. This is the equivalent of shifting the majority of the blame on her and the judge effectively declared her as his killer (a guy who took his own life).

You guys find this a little bit overboard right? I mean just a little?

Jesus Christ, Frank, I answered this two comments up.

I'm not referring to you, I'm referring to people who agree with the sentencing.

Which, by the looks of this thread, is like 2 people at most.  Go post this on reddit or something.

With the amount of people that still post on the forum, I consider that a good amount.



There will never be a better Spiderman than Tobey Maguire.
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cupcake

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Re: Let's talk about this court case
« Reply #88 on: June 23, 2017, 03:55:21 pm »

There will never be a better Spiderman than Tobey Maguire.

y'know... in 100 years when all of us are dead, this site will be our legacy.

except me... i won't be dead.  i'll find the key to immortality
goodbye!

Frankie

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Re: Let's talk about this court case
« Reply #89 on: June 23, 2017, 03:57:12 pm »

There will never be a better Spiderman than Tobey Maguire.

y'know... in 100 years when all of us are dead, this site will be our legacy.

except me... i won't be dead.  i'll find the key to immortality

Are you proud of this accomplishment?

Tut

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Re: Let's talk about this court case
« Reply #90 on: June 23, 2017, 06:27:29 pm »

If we're to believe that this is a manslaughter case, and the girl committed a murder, then how can this be a suicide? Did the boy kill himself, or did the girl kill him? You cannot have it both ways.

What about the girl who had cancer and wanted to commit suicide through euthanasia?  Technically, she didn't kill herself, but it was still classified as suicide because she was willing.  Shit, Kevorkian got years for that.

I am unclear on the specifics of that case. Still, as someone who believes assisted suicide should be legal, I'd probably have similar complaints about it. I have no problem with Kevorkian-- he believed in the individual's right to self-determination, including their right to end their own life. There's a difference between that and, say, denying cancer treatments for people over the age of 75 (which actually fits the definition of "involuntary manslaughter" much better than what Michelle Carter did).

All I'm saying is that at times suicide and murder have a very thin line between them.  I don't agree as much with a manslaughter charge as with a charge in gross negligence or such.  After all, she gave him specifically directions on how to kill himself. 

Did she though? I'm legitimately asking here. I hadn't heard that she'd given him directions on how to actually perform the act. In that case, she could be charged as an accessory in some capacity. But every article I've read has said that she simply encouraged him.

Regardless, it's good to know that we're in agreement on this not being manslaughter. My impression of manslaughter is that it requires a cause-and-effect chain of events that cannot be interrupted by the victim's own free will. Suicide is inherently an act of free will; therefore, this could not have been manslaughter.
Here's one of the messages they had:

Carter: "So I guess you aren't gonna do it then, all that for nothing"
Carter: "I'm just confused like you were so ready and determined"
Roy: "I am gonna eventually"
Roy: "I really don't know what I'm waiting for. . but I have everything lined up"
Carter: "No, you're not, Conrad. Last night was it. You keep pushing it off and you say you'll do it but u never do. Its always gonna be that way if u don't take action"
Carter: "You're just making it harder on yourself by pushing it off, you just have to do it"
Carter: "Do u wanna do it now?"
Roy: "Is it too late?"
Roy: "Idkk it's already light outside"
Roy: I'm gonna go back to sleep, love you I'll text you tomorrow"
Carter: "No? Its probably the best time now because everyone's sleeping. Just go somewhere in your truck. And no one's really out right now because it's an awkward time"
Carter: "If u don't do it now you're never gonna do it"
Carter: "And u can say you'll do it tomorrow but you probably won't"
Carter: "You just need to do it Conrad or I'm gonna get you help"
Carter: "You can't keep doing this everyday"
Roy: "Okay I'm gonna do it today"
Carter: "Do you promise"
Roy: "I promise babe"
Roy: "I have to now"
Carter: "Like right now?"
Roy: "where do I go? :("
Carter: "And u can't break a promise. And just go in a quiet parking lot or something."

Here's a transcript of a majority of the texts.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/08/us/text-message-suicide-michelle-carter-conrad-roy/index.html

The most damning part is them having a conversation on how to produce CO and kill him painlessly. 

Yeah... I looked at the texts, and I have to say, while they're a pretty damning indictment of who she is as a person, I'm not seeing an "accessory to murder/suicide" case here. If she had actually informed him how to do it, that would be something else. But the furthest she went was telling him to "look it up on YouTube" or something. Not sure if that counts as assisting suicide.

Charles Longboat Jr.

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Re: Let's talk about this court case
« Reply #91 on: August 03, 2017, 03:40:37 pm »
She's been sentenced to two and a half years in prison, with probation eligibility after 15 months.

Frankie

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Re: Let's talk about this court case
« Reply #92 on: August 03, 2017, 03:44:55 pm »

Tut

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Re: Let's talk about this court case
« Reply #93 on: August 03, 2017, 03:52:55 pm »
She's been sentenced to two and a half years in prison, with probation eligibility after 15 months.

The thought police win again. It's a brave new world.

Frankie

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Re: Let's talk about this court case
« Reply #94 on: August 03, 2017, 04:10:01 pm »
She's been sentenced to two and a half years in prison, with probation eligibility after 15 months.

The thought police win again. It's a brave new world.

I was expecting five years, this is not bad at all. And she'll probably be granted parole too.

But yeah she shouldn't have been convicted in the first place.

ChillinDylan Godsend

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Re: Let's talk about this court case
« Reply #95 on: April 23, 2018, 11:08:05 pm »
Okay, I just watched 12 Angry Men for the first time, and I think I might have to give it a perfect 5/7 score. However, it's also caused me to remember this thread, and I want to get some feedback from all you other people who haven't weighed in yet. So Moody, Tatum, Kashmir, and all you others... what do you think about this? I'll make a poll...

12 Angry Men is one of my top all-time films.

Tut

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Re: Let's talk about this court case
« Reply #96 on: April 23, 2018, 11:08:45 pm »
Okay, I just watched 12 Angry Men for the first time, and I think I might have to give it a perfect 5/7 score. However, it's also caused me to remember this thread, and I want to get some feedback from all you other people who haven't weighed in yet. So Moody, Tatum, Kashmir, and all you others... what do you think about this? I'll make a poll...

12 Angry Men is one of my top all-time films.

Same here. I think it broke my top 20.

ChillinDylan Godsend

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Re: Let's talk about this court case
« Reply #97 on: April 23, 2018, 11:10:28 pm »
Okay, I just watched 12 Angry Men for the first time, and I think I might have to give it a perfect 5/7 score. However, it's also caused me to remember this thread, and I want to get some feedback from all you other people who haven't weighed in yet. So Moody, Tatum, Kashmir, and all you others... what do you think about this? I'll make a poll...

12 Angry Men is one of my top all-time films.

Same here. I think it broke my top 20.

Was #25 on the list I did a couple years ago when we were all doing it.  I think it's one of the films I gave Bread to watch in our exchange but, of course, he didn't watch any of them.

 

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