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Poll

After Flynn, Comey, Bannon, Priebus, Spicer, Scaramucci, Gorka, Price, Hicks, Cohn, Tillerson, McMaster, Ryan, Pruitt, and Haley who will be eliminated next on The Presidential Apprentice?

Mueller
0 (0%)
Pence
0 (0%)
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0 (0%)
Pompeo
0 (0%)
Mnuchin
0 (0%)
Miller
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DeVos
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Perry
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Rosenstein
1 (100%)
Other
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Total Members Voted: 1

Author Topic: The Trump Presidency Thread  (Read 3794 times)

Tut

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ChillinDylan Godsend

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread
« Reply #261 on: April 19, 2018, 12:07:49 pm »
Trump gets re-elected. Calling it now.

LOL - this is some over-the-top weirdo "progressive" bullshit right here.  I'm so glad I'm married and don't have to deal with any of this fucking nonsense in the current dating world...

ChillinDylan Godsend

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ChillinDylan Godsend

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread
« Reply #263 on: April 20, 2018, 01:09:39 pm »

Robert Neville

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread
« Reply #264 on: April 20, 2018, 04:18:57 pm »
Uh oh - Trump NOT a target in Russia probe according to Rosenstein.

Erm, Dylan, the story you linked is actually about your climate change-denying environmental secretary's excesses.

Not that I can actually gloat about anything in that story - Putin's and others' position on AGW is ambivalent at best (though to be fair, I don't think we can realistically do too much about it regardless, since most renewables wouldn't work in our climate, for instance.) Moreover, pretty much anything Pruitt is said to do unfortunately seems par the course for just about any of our politicians.

ChillinDylan Godsend

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread
« Reply #265 on: April 20, 2018, 05:22:34 pm »
Uh oh - Trump NOT a target in Russia probe according to Rosenstein.

Erm, Dylan, the story you linked is actually about your climate change-denying environmental secretary's excesses.

Not that I can actually gloat about anything in that story - Putin's and others' position on AGW is ambivalent at best (though to be fair, I don't think we can realistically do too much about it regardless, since most renewables wouldn't work in our climate, for instance.) Moreover, pretty much anything Pruitt is said to do unfortunately seems par the course for just about any of our politicians.

No - Reuters must have changed up the links...weird...

Either that or somebody is messing with my posts.  Anyway, it's fixed.  And if it changes again, THIS is the link:  https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-target/rosenstein-told-trump-last-week-he-is-not-a-target-in-russia-probe-idUSKBN1HQ2XI

Kale Pasta

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread
« Reply #266 on: April 20, 2018, 08:20:03 pm »
Uh oh - Trump NOT a target in Russia probe according to Rosenstein.
Regardless of the link, this has been true since the beginning and is meaningless either way. While I think it's exceedingly unlikely that Trump himself is directly implicated or taken down by the Russia probe, him being a subject rather than a target right now doesn't really mean anything as those distinctions change over the course of an investigation.

ChillinDylan Godsend

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread
« Reply #267 on: April 20, 2018, 11:45:22 pm »
Uh oh - Trump NOT a target in Russia probe according to Rosenstein.
Regardless of the link, this has been true since the beginning and is meaningless either way. While I think it's exceedingly unlikely that Trump himself is directly implicated or taken down by the Russia probe, him being a subject rather than a target right now doesn't really mean anything as those distinctions change over the course of an investigation.

True - but I have been asked repeatedly that if Trump himself is found directly guilty of collusion related to Russia, would I accept the results?  And I've always said that if the evidence is there, I would gladly accept it.  The question also has a flip side though.  For those thoroughly convinced that Trump is guilty and are banking on it to appease their desires to have him impeached, the question then becomes will THOSE people accept the results if Trump is found to NOT have colluded with Russia? 

Similar to how Hillary pushed Trump to say he'd accept the results of the election, but when she lost she immediately began to question those results. 

Point being - the pendulum swings both ways.  This info from Rosenstein indicates it MIGHT sway in the direction that is going to infuriate a lot of people.  Of course, only time will tell...

Kale Pasta

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread
« Reply #268 on: April 21, 2018, 02:37:55 pm »
Uh oh - Trump NOT a target in Russia probe according to Rosenstein.
Regardless of the link, this has been true since the beginning and is meaningless either way. While I think it's exceedingly unlikely that Trump himself is directly implicated or taken down by the Russia probe, him being a subject rather than a target right now doesn't really mean anything as those distinctions change over the course of an investigation.

True - but I have been asked repeatedly that if Trump himself is found directly guilty of collusion related to Russia, would I accept the results?  And I've always said that if the evidence is there, I would gladly accept it.  The question also has a flip side though.  For those thoroughly convinced that Trump is guilty and are banking on it to appease their desires to have him impeached, the question then becomes will THOSE people accept the results if Trump is found to NOT have colluded with Russia? 

Similar to how Hillary pushed Trump to say he'd accept the results of the election, but when she lost she immediately began to question those results. 

Point being - the pendulum swings both ways.  This info from Rosenstein indicates it MIGHT sway in the direction that is going to infuriate a lot of people.  Of course, only time will tell...
I mean, the issue with that is that it's basically impossible to definitively prove that something didn't happen. Like, if there's concrete proof that Trump knew about election meddling and approved that's one thing, but if the investigation only finds proof of lower-level staffers knowing people can still say that they believe Trump knew about it (since it's not possible to prove otherwise). So yeah, people will be upset with whatever happens as to the conclusion of the investigation, I just don't think that necessarily means that there's any hypocrisy.

Ironically, that's kind of similar to how Hillary didn't question the election results. Saying that the Electoral College is unfair is not equal to saying that millions of unregistered people voted illegally.

Tut

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread
« Reply #269 on: April 21, 2018, 03:03:58 pm »
For the record, I have always said that if the Mueller investigation does not go all the way to Trump's doorstep, I will accept the results (and actually be quite relieved).

ChillinDylan Godsend

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread
« Reply #270 on: April 21, 2018, 03:14:33 pm »
Uh oh - Trump NOT a target in Russia probe according to Rosenstein.
Regardless of the link, this has been true since the beginning and is meaningless either way. While I think it's exceedingly unlikely that Trump himself is directly implicated or taken down by the Russia probe, him being a subject rather than a target right now doesn't really mean anything as those distinctions change over the course of an investigation.

True - but I have been asked repeatedly that if Trump himself is found directly guilty of collusion related to Russia, would I accept the results?  And I've always said that if the evidence is there, I would gladly accept it.  The question also has a flip side though.  For those thoroughly convinced that Trump is guilty and are banking on it to appease their desires to have him impeached, the question then becomes will THOSE people accept the results if Trump is found to NOT have colluded with Russia? 

Similar to how Hillary pushed Trump to say he'd accept the results of the election, but when she lost she immediately began to question those results. 

Point being - the pendulum swings both ways.  This info from Rosenstein indicates it MIGHT sway in the direction that is going to infuriate a lot of people.  Of course, only time will tell...
I mean, the issue with that is that it's basically impossible to definitively prove that something didn't happen. Like, if there's concrete proof that Trump knew about election meddling and approved that's one thing, but if the investigation only finds proof of lower-level staffers knowing people can still say that they believe Trump knew about it (since it's not possible to prove otherwise). So yeah, people will be upset with whatever happens as to the conclusion of the investigation, I just don't think that necessarily means that there's any hypocrisy.

Ironically, that's kind of similar to how Hillary didn't question the election results. Saying that the Electoral College is unfair is not equal to saying that millions of unregistered people voted illegally.

So what you're saying then is that NO MATTER WHAT the results of the investigation, you will still believe 100% that Trump colluded with Russia?

Also - on the Hillary end...sorry to burst your bubble, but it's not just the Electoral College - a year later she still doesn't accept them. These are her words directly. https://nypost.com/2017/09/18/hillary-clinton-still-wants-to-challenge-election-results/

ChillinDylan Godsend

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread
« Reply #271 on: April 21, 2018, 03:15:14 pm »
For the record, I have always said that if the Mueller investigation does not go all the way to Trump's doorstep, I will accept the results (and actually be quite relieved).

Yes, but you're not a pussy hat wearing psycho liberal.

Kale Pasta

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread
« Reply #272 on: April 21, 2018, 03:24:16 pm »
Uh oh - Trump NOT a target in Russia probe according to Rosenstein.
Regardless of the link, this has been true since the beginning and is meaningless either way. While I think it's exceedingly unlikely that Trump himself is directly implicated or taken down by the Russia probe, him being a subject rather than a target right now doesn't really mean anything as those distinctions change over the course of an investigation.

True - but I have been asked repeatedly that if Trump himself is found directly guilty of collusion related to Russia, would I accept the results?  And I've always said that if the evidence is there, I would gladly accept it.  The question also has a flip side though.  For those thoroughly convinced that Trump is guilty and are banking on it to appease their desires to have him impeached, the question then becomes will THOSE people accept the results if Trump is found to NOT have colluded with Russia? 

Similar to how Hillary pushed Trump to say he'd accept the results of the election, but when she lost she immediately began to question those results. 

Point being - the pendulum swings both ways.  This info from Rosenstein indicates it MIGHT sway in the direction that is going to infuriate a lot of people.  Of course, only time will tell...
I mean, the issue with that is that it's basically impossible to definitively prove that something didn't happen. Like, if there's concrete proof that Trump knew about election meddling and approved that's one thing, but if the investigation only finds proof of lower-level staffers knowing people can still say that they believe Trump knew about it (since it's not possible to prove otherwise). So yeah, people will be upset with whatever happens as to the conclusion of the investigation, I just don't think that necessarily means that there's any hypocrisy.

Ironically, that's kind of similar to how Hillary didn't question the election results. Saying that the Electoral College is unfair is not equal to saying that millions of unregistered people voted illegally.

So what you're saying then is that NO MATTER WHAT the results of the investigation, you will still believe 100% that Trump colluded with Russia?

Also - on the Hillary end...sorry to burst your bubble, but it's not just the Electoral College - a year later she still doesn't accept them. These are her words directly. https://nypost.com/2017/09/18/hillary-clinton-still-wants-to-challenge-election-results/
What? No, I'll be fine with it. I explicitly used phrases like "people can say" and people will be upset" so I'm unsure how you extrapolated that to my personal perspective. I'll absolutely accept the results of the investigation, although I think it's more likely than not that the Trump campaign knew about Russian interference and colluded (that does not necessarily implicate Trump himself).

And yeah, on the Hillary end you cited a New York Post article lol. If you actually read the thing, what you'd find is that she said she "would consider" (not would) challenging the election results if, and only if, concrete proof of Russain interference beyond what is already public comes to light.
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ChillinDylan Godsend

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread
« Reply #273 on: April 21, 2018, 03:32:15 pm »
Uh oh - Trump NOT a target in Russia probe according to Rosenstein.
Regardless of the link, this has been true since the beginning and is meaningless either way. While I think it's exceedingly unlikely that Trump himself is directly implicated or taken down by the Russia probe, him being a subject rather than a target right now doesn't really mean anything as those distinctions change over the course of an investigation.

True - but I have been asked repeatedly that if Trump himself is found directly guilty of collusion related to Russia, would I accept the results?  And I've always said that if the evidence is there, I would gladly accept it.  The question also has a flip side though.  For those thoroughly convinced that Trump is guilty and are banking on it to appease their desires to have him impeached, the question then becomes will THOSE people accept the results if Trump is found to NOT have colluded with Russia? 

Similar to how Hillary pushed Trump to say he'd accept the results of the election, but when she lost she immediately began to question those results. 

Point being - the pendulum swings both ways.  This info from Rosenstein indicates it MIGHT sway in the direction that is going to infuriate a lot of people.  Of course, only time will tell...
I mean, the issue with that is that it's basically impossible to definitively prove that something didn't happen. Like, if there's concrete proof that Trump knew about election meddling and approved that's one thing, but if the investigation only finds proof of lower-level staffers knowing people can still say that they believe Trump knew about it (since it's not possible to prove otherwise). So yeah, people will be upset with whatever happens as to the conclusion of the investigation, I just don't think that necessarily means that there's any hypocrisy.

Ironically, that's kind of similar to how Hillary didn't question the election results. Saying that the Electoral College is unfair is not equal to saying that millions of unregistered people voted illegally.

So what you're saying then is that NO MATTER WHAT the results of the investigation, you will still believe 100% that Trump colluded with Russia?

Also - on the Hillary end...sorry to burst your bubble, but it's not just the Electoral College - a year later she still doesn't accept them. These are her words directly. https://nypost.com/2017/09/18/hillary-clinton-still-wants-to-challenge-election-results/
What? No, I'll be fine with it. I explicitly used phrases like "people can say" and people will be upset" so I'm unsure how you extrapolated that to my personal perspective. I'll absolutely accept the results of the investigation, although I think it's more likely than not that the Trump campaign knew about Russian interference and colluded (that does not necessarily implicate Trump himself).

And yeah, on the Hillary end you cited a New York Post article lol. If you actually read the thing, what you'd find is that she said she "would consider" (not would) challenging the election results if, and only if, concrete proof of Russain interference beyond what is already public comes to light.

1 - So if Trump is not implicated in any way in the investigation you will conclude that Trump was NOT complicit in any way in Russian collusion?  Right?  I have that correct?

2 - My point was...she badgered Trump over whether or not he would accept the results.  She went so far as to say that his failure to commit to accepting the results "threatens democracy".  https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/10/21/clinton-trump-threatens-democracy-not-accepting-election-results/92533916/

Yet, she STILL doesn't accept the results, as you can see from this exchange.  If she accepted them, she wouldn't even consider challenging them still.  My point stands...she is a fucking hypocrite of the most monumental proportions.

“I wouldn’t rule it out​,” Clinton told National Public Radio on Monday.

That seemed to floor the interviewer, Terry Gross.

“So what are the means, like, this is totally unprecedented in every way,” Gross said, grasping for a follow-up.

“It is,” replied Clinton.

Kale Pasta

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread
« Reply #274 on: April 22, 2018, 11:16:10 pm »
Uh oh - Trump NOT a target in Russia probe according to Rosenstein.
Regardless of the link, this has been true since the beginning and is meaningless either way. While I think it's exceedingly unlikely that Trump himself is directly implicated or taken down by the Russia probe, him being a subject rather than a target right now doesn't really mean anything as those distinctions change over the course of an investigation.

True - but I have been asked repeatedly that if Trump himself is found directly guilty of collusion related to Russia, would I accept the results?  And I've always said that if the evidence is there, I would gladly accept it.  The question also has a flip side though.  For those thoroughly convinced that Trump is guilty and are banking on it to appease their desires to have him impeached, the question then becomes will THOSE people accept the results if Trump is found to NOT have colluded with Russia? 

Similar to how Hillary pushed Trump to say he'd accept the results of the election, but when she lost she immediately began to question those results. 

Point being - the pendulum swings both ways.  This info from Rosenstein indicates it MIGHT sway in the direction that is going to infuriate a lot of people.  Of course, only time will tell...
I mean, the issue with that is that it's basically impossible to definitively prove that something didn't happen. Like, if there's concrete proof that Trump knew about election meddling and approved that's one thing, but if the investigation only finds proof of lower-level staffers knowing people can still say that they believe Trump knew about it (since it's not possible to prove otherwise). So yeah, people will be upset with whatever happens as to the conclusion of the investigation, I just don't think that necessarily means that there's any hypocrisy.

Ironically, that's kind of similar to how Hillary didn't question the election results. Saying that the Electoral College is unfair is not equal to saying that millions of unregistered people voted illegally.

So what you're saying then is that NO MATTER WHAT the results of the investigation, you will still believe 100% that Trump colluded with Russia?

Also - on the Hillary end...sorry to burst your bubble, but it's not just the Electoral College - a year later she still doesn't accept them. These are her words directly. https://nypost.com/2017/09/18/hillary-clinton-still-wants-to-challenge-election-results/
What? No, I'll be fine with it. I explicitly used phrases like "people can say" and people will be upset" so I'm unsure how you extrapolated that to my personal perspective. I'll absolutely accept the results of the investigation, although I think it's more likely than not that the Trump campaign knew about Russian interference and colluded (that does not necessarily implicate Trump himself).

And yeah, on the Hillary end you cited a New York Post article lol. If you actually read the thing, what you'd find is that she said she "would consider" (not would) challenging the election results if, and only if, concrete proof of Russain interference beyond what is already public comes to light.

1 - So if Trump is not implicated in any way in the investigation you will conclude that Trump was NOT complicit in any way in Russian collusion?  Right?  I have that correct?

2 - My point was...she badgered Trump over whether or not he would accept the results.  She went so far as to say that his failure to commit to accepting the results "threatens democracy".  https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/10/21/clinton-trump-threatens-democracy-not-accepting-election-results/92533916/

Yet, she STILL doesn't accept the results, as you can see from this exchange.  If she accepted them, she wouldn't even consider challenging them still.  My point stands...she is a fucking hypocrite of the most monumental proportions.

“I wouldn’t rule it out​,” Clinton told National Public Radio on Monday.

That seemed to floor the interviewer, Terry Gross.

“So what are the means, like, this is totally unprecedented in every way,” Gross said, grasping for a follow-up.

“It is,” replied Clinton.
1. I will absolutely accept the results of the investigtation either way. That doesn't mean I necessarily think Trump wasn't complicit, but that I think the matter should be closed no matter what, since evidence of collusion does not exist.

2. That is not hypocritical for the reasons I laid out in my previous post. She basically said she was open to looking into a challenge if something huge was discovered on the Russian front; not the same as just challenging the results in my opinion. It's like accepting a jury decision unless some huge new piece of evidence is introduced, which I think is a reasonable caveat.

ChillinDylan Godsend

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread
« Reply #275 on: April 22, 2018, 11:21:25 pm »
Uh oh - Trump NOT a target in Russia probe according to Rosenstein.
Regardless of the link, this has been true since the beginning and is meaningless either way. While I think it's exceedingly unlikely that Trump himself is directly implicated or taken down by the Russia probe, him being a subject rather than a target right now doesn't really mean anything as those distinctions change over the course of an investigation.

True - but I have been asked repeatedly that if Trump himself is found directly guilty of collusion related to Russia, would I accept the results?  And I've always said that if the evidence is there, I would gladly accept it.  The question also has a flip side though.  For those thoroughly convinced that Trump is guilty and are banking on it to appease their desires to have him impeached, the question then becomes will THOSE people accept the results if Trump is found to NOT have colluded with Russia? 

Similar to how Hillary pushed Trump to say he'd accept the results of the election, but when she lost she immediately began to question those results. 

Point being - the pendulum swings both ways.  This info from Rosenstein indicates it MIGHT sway in the direction that is going to infuriate a lot of people.  Of course, only time will tell...
I mean, the issue with that is that it's basically impossible to definitively prove that something didn't happen. Like, if there's concrete proof that Trump knew about election meddling and approved that's one thing, but if the investigation only finds proof of lower-level staffers knowing people can still say that they believe Trump knew about it (since it's not possible to prove otherwise). So yeah, people will be upset with whatever happens as to the conclusion of the investigation, I just don't think that necessarily means that there's any hypocrisy.

Ironically, that's kind of similar to how Hillary didn't question the election results. Saying that the Electoral College is unfair is not equal to saying that millions of unregistered people voted illegally.

So what you're saying then is that NO MATTER WHAT the results of the investigation, you will still believe 100% that Trump colluded with Russia?

Also - on the Hillary end...sorry to burst your bubble, but it's not just the Electoral College - a year later she still doesn't accept them. These are her words directly. https://nypost.com/2017/09/18/hillary-clinton-still-wants-to-challenge-election-results/
What? No, I'll be fine with it. I explicitly used phrases like "people can say" and people will be upset" so I'm unsure how you extrapolated that to my personal perspective. I'll absolutely accept the results of the investigation, although I think it's more likely than not that the Trump campaign knew about Russian interference and colluded (that does not necessarily implicate Trump himself).

And yeah, on the Hillary end you cited a New York Post article lol. If you actually read the thing, what you'd find is that she said she "would consider" (not would) challenging the election results if, and only if, concrete proof of Russain interference beyond what is already public comes to light.

1 - So if Trump is not implicated in any way in the investigation you will conclude that Trump was NOT complicit in any way in Russian collusion?  Right?  I have that correct?

2 - My point was...she badgered Trump over whether or not he would accept the results.  She went so far as to say that his failure to commit to accepting the results "threatens democracy".  https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/10/21/clinton-trump-threatens-democracy-not-accepting-election-results/92533916/

Yet, she STILL doesn't accept the results, as you can see from this exchange.  If she accepted them, she wouldn't even consider challenging them still.  My point stands...she is a fucking hypocrite of the most monumental proportions.

“I wouldn’t rule it out​,” Clinton told National Public Radio on Monday.

That seemed to floor the interviewer, Terry Gross.

“So what are the means, like, this is totally unprecedented in every way,” Gross said, grasping for a follow-up.

“It is,” replied Clinton.
1. I will absolutely accept the results of the investigtation either way. That doesn't mean I necessarily think Trump wasn't complicit, but that I think the matter should be closed no matter what, since evidence of collusion does not exist.

2. That is not hypocritical for the reasons I laid out in my previous post. She basically said she was open to looking into a challenge if something huge was discovered on the Russian front; not the same as just challenging the results in my opinion. It's like accepting a jury decision unless some huge new piece of evidence is introduced, which I think is a reasonable caveat.

If Trump had said that exact thing - Hillary and all the rest of the liberals would have completely lost their collective minds.  In fact, here's what Trump did say when Hillary was badgering him about it..."I will look at it at the time".  Is that a reasonable caveat?  Because it's pretty similar.  Yet the media AND Hillary went fucking nuts over it.

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread
« Reply #276 on: April 22, 2018, 11:28:32 pm »
Uh oh - Trump NOT a target in Russia probe according to Rosenstein.
Regardless of the link, this has been true since the beginning and is meaningless either way. While I think it's exceedingly unlikely that Trump himself is directly implicated or taken down by the Russia probe, him being a subject rather than a target right now doesn't really mean anything as those distinctions change over the course of an investigation.

True - but I have been asked repeatedly that if Trump himself is found directly guilty of collusion related to Russia, would I accept the results?  And I've always said that if the evidence is there, I would gladly accept it.  The question also has a flip side though.  For those thoroughly convinced that Trump is guilty and are banking on it to appease their desires to have him impeached, the question then becomes will THOSE people accept the results if Trump is found to NOT have colluded with Russia? 

Similar to how Hillary pushed Trump to say he'd accept the results of the election, but when she lost she immediately began to question those results. 

Point being - the pendulum swings both ways.  This info from Rosenstein indicates it MIGHT sway in the direction that is going to infuriate a lot of people.  Of course, only time will tell...
I mean, the issue with that is that it's basically impossible to definitively prove that something didn't happen. Like, if there's concrete proof that Trump knew about election meddling and approved that's one thing, but if the investigation only finds proof of lower-level staffers knowing people can still say that they believe Trump knew about it (since it's not possible to prove otherwise). So yeah, people will be upset with whatever happens as to the conclusion of the investigation, I just don't think that necessarily means that there's any hypocrisy.

Ironically, that's kind of similar to how Hillary didn't question the election results. Saying that the Electoral College is unfair is not equal to saying that millions of unregistered people voted illegally.

So what you're saying then is that NO MATTER WHAT the results of the investigation, you will still believe 100% that Trump colluded with Russia?

Also - on the Hillary end...sorry to burst your bubble, but it's not just the Electoral College - a year later she still doesn't accept them. These are her words directly. https://nypost.com/2017/09/18/hillary-clinton-still-wants-to-challenge-election-results/
What? No, I'll be fine with it. I explicitly used phrases like "people can say" and people will be upset" so I'm unsure how you extrapolated that to my personal perspective. I'll absolutely accept the results of the investigation, although I think it's more likely than not that the Trump campaign knew about Russian interference and colluded (that does not necessarily implicate Trump himself).

And yeah, on the Hillary end you cited a New York Post article lol. If you actually read the thing, what you'd find is that she said she "would consider" (not would) challenging the election results if, and only if, concrete proof of Russain interference beyond what is already public comes to light.

1 - So if Trump is not implicated in any way in the investigation you will conclude that Trump was NOT complicit in any way in Russian collusion?  Right?  I have that correct?

2 - My point was...she badgered Trump over whether or not he would accept the results.  She went so far as to say that his failure to commit to accepting the results "threatens democracy".  https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/10/21/clinton-trump-threatens-democracy-not-accepting-election-results/92533916/

Yet, she STILL doesn't accept the results, as you can see from this exchange.  If she accepted them, she wouldn't even consider challenging them still.  My point stands...she is a fucking hypocrite of the most monumental proportions.

“I wouldn’t rule it out​,” Clinton told National Public Radio on Monday.

That seemed to floor the interviewer, Terry Gross.

“So what are the means, like, this is totally unprecedented in every way,” Gross said, grasping for a follow-up.

“It is,” replied Clinton.
1. I will absolutely accept the results of the investigtation either way. That doesn't mean I necessarily think Trump wasn't complicit, but that I think the matter should be closed no matter what, since evidence of collusion does not exist.

2. That is not hypocritical for the reasons I laid out in my previous post. She basically said she was open to looking into a challenge if something huge was discovered on the Russian front; not the same as just challenging the results in my opinion. It's like accepting a jury decision unless some huge new piece of evidence is introduced, which I think is a reasonable caveat.

If Trump had said that exact thing - Hillary and all the rest of the liberals would have completely lost their collective minds.  In fact, here's what Trump did say when Hillary was badgering him about it..."I will look at it at the time".  Is that a reasonable caveat?  Because it's pretty similar.  Yet the media AND Hillary went fucking nuts over it.
From what I recall, Trump essentially said in one of the debates that if he lost, the election was rigged. He didn't put any caveats pertaining to outside interference in, so no, I would not say the two are equivalent (assuming I recall what happened correctly, which may not be true).

ChillinDylan Godsend

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread
« Reply #277 on: April 22, 2018, 11:33:22 pm »
Uh oh - Trump NOT a target in Russia probe according to Rosenstein.
Regardless of the link, this has been true since the beginning and is meaningless either way. While I think it's exceedingly unlikely that Trump himself is directly implicated or taken down by the Russia probe, him being a subject rather than a target right now doesn't really mean anything as those distinctions change over the course of an investigation.

True - but I have been asked repeatedly that if Trump himself is found directly guilty of collusion related to Russia, would I accept the results?  And I've always said that if the evidence is there, I would gladly accept it.  The question also has a flip side though.  For those thoroughly convinced that Trump is guilty and are banking on it to appease their desires to have him impeached, the question then becomes will THOSE people accept the results if Trump is found to NOT have colluded with Russia? 

Similar to how Hillary pushed Trump to say he'd accept the results of the election, but when she lost she immediately began to question those results. 

Point being - the pendulum swings both ways.  This info from Rosenstein indicates it MIGHT sway in the direction that is going to infuriate a lot of people.  Of course, only time will tell...
I mean, the issue with that is that it's basically impossible to definitively prove that something didn't happen. Like, if there's concrete proof that Trump knew about election meddling and approved that's one thing, but if the investigation only finds proof of lower-level staffers knowing people can still say that they believe Trump knew about it (since it's not possible to prove otherwise). So yeah, people will be upset with whatever happens as to the conclusion of the investigation, I just don't think that necessarily means that there's any hypocrisy.

Ironically, that's kind of similar to how Hillary didn't question the election results. Saying that the Electoral College is unfair is not equal to saying that millions of unregistered people voted illegally.

So what you're saying then is that NO MATTER WHAT the results of the investigation, you will still believe 100% that Trump colluded with Russia?

Also - on the Hillary end...sorry to burst your bubble, but it's not just the Electoral College - a year later she still doesn't accept them. These are her words directly. https://nypost.com/2017/09/18/hillary-clinton-still-wants-to-challenge-election-results/
What? No, I'll be fine with it. I explicitly used phrases like "people can say" and people will be upset" so I'm unsure how you extrapolated that to my personal perspective. I'll absolutely accept the results of the investigation, although I think it's more likely than not that the Trump campaign knew about Russian interference and colluded (that does not necessarily implicate Trump himself).

And yeah, on the Hillary end you cited a New York Post article lol. If you actually read the thing, what you'd find is that she said she "would consider" (not would) challenging the election results if, and only if, concrete proof of Russain interference beyond what is already public comes to light.

1 - So if Trump is not implicated in any way in the investigation you will conclude that Trump was NOT complicit in any way in Russian collusion?  Right?  I have that correct?

2 - My point was...she badgered Trump over whether or not he would accept the results.  She went so far as to say that his failure to commit to accepting the results "threatens democracy".  https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/10/21/clinton-trump-threatens-democracy-not-accepting-election-results/92533916/

Yet, she STILL doesn't accept the results, as you can see from this exchange.  If she accepted them, she wouldn't even consider challenging them still.  My point stands...she is a fucking hypocrite of the most monumental proportions.

“I wouldn’t rule it out​,” Clinton told National Public Radio on Monday.

That seemed to floor the interviewer, Terry Gross.

“So what are the means, like, this is totally unprecedented in every way,” Gross said, grasping for a follow-up.

“It is,” replied Clinton.
1. I will absolutely accept the results of the investigtation either way. That doesn't mean I necessarily think Trump wasn't complicit, but that I think the matter should be closed no matter what, since evidence of collusion does not exist.

2. That is not hypocritical for the reasons I laid out in my previous post. She basically said she was open to looking into a challenge if something huge was discovered on the Russian front; not the same as just challenging the results in my opinion. It's like accepting a jury decision unless some huge new piece of evidence is introduced, which I think is a reasonable caveat.

If Trump had said that exact thing - Hillary and all the rest of the liberals would have completely lost their collective minds.  In fact, here's what Trump did say when Hillary was badgering him about it..."I will look at it at the time".  Is that a reasonable caveat?  Because it's pretty similar.  Yet the media AND Hillary went fucking nuts over it.
From what I recall, Trump essentially said in one of the debates that if he lost, the election was rigged. He didn't put any caveats pertaining to outside interference in, so no, I would not say the two are equivalent (assuming I recall what happened correctly, which may not be true).

He said the election had been rigged against him up until that point (mostly because of the media).  Then when Hillary pestered him, he said "I will look at it at the time".  Not very different from "I wouldn't rule it out" when asked if she will challenge.  They are essentially in the same thought process which is this - if there is ANY way for me to challenge and win, I will.  There is no difference in their mindsets about it.  That's my point.  She was/is being a total hypocrite about it. 



This is the synopsis of what happened...

Hillary to Trump:  "Will you accept the results of the election"
Trump:  "Maybe, unless I think it was rigged against me."
Hillary:  "That's horrifying. I am appalled he would take that position. He is taking down our democracy."

10 months later...

Interviewer to Hillary"  "Have you accepted the results of the election"
Hillary:  "Maybe, unless I think it was rigged against me."


ChillinDylan Godsend

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Kale Pasta

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread
« Reply #279 on: April 23, 2018, 06:11:55 pm »
Gallop says Trump re-elections numbers similar to those of Obama and Clinton.


http://news.gallup.com/poll/233000/trump-elect-figures-similar-obama-clinton.aspx?utm_source=alert&utm_medium=email&utm_content=morelink&utm_campaign=syndication

Important to note that approval ratings for those two were higher, but still, the point remains that anyone who thinks Trump has no chance to get re-elected is entirely delusional.

 

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