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Author Topic: The Correct Opinion Thread  (Read 1596 times)

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Re: The Correct Opinion Thread
« Reply #40 on: February 25, 2018, 06:45:33 pm »
Ghost in the Shell is the farthest thing from racist.
By extension, if you have no problem with casting people of color in white roles (such as Hamilton) then you should have no problem with the opposite happening either.

Also, it's pitiful if someone can only resonate with a character based on aesthetics or identity rather than traits, values, and struggles.
This is such a thin, shallow argument that completely ignores the entire context of why diversity and representation is seen as such a big deal in our entertainment and media today. Itís like when people complain about BET and ask why there isnít a WET channel. Or say ďALL Lives MatterĒ whenever someone brings up Black Lives Matter.

The number of roles people of color have and the number of roles that white people have in film and TV are disproportionate as hell. Itís incredibly skewed with the majority of roles given to white people. So therefore, giving roles that were traditionally cast with white actors to someone whoís not white is like giving a dollar to a homeless person. Taking away a role from a traditionally non white character is like taking that homeless personís sack of $1 bills and giving it to Bill Gates.

And before anyone makes the equally simplistic and ignorant argument that China doesnít cast white people in their movies:
1) Yes they do. All the time lmao. Their biggest film of 2017 starred Frank Grillo. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_Warrior_2
2) China is a homogenous country that doesnít claim to be an ethnic cultural melting pot. On the contrary, the US absolutely does, thatís one of the founding ideals this country was built on.
3) Most foreign films do not have the same global blockbuster power that most Hollywood films do. Hollywood films reach an audience around the world, not just in the US. As a result, they have a serious impact on the social perception of ethnic groups globally. The media you consume can influence your views, who woulda thunk it? 

And donít act all high and mighty about people naturally identifying with their own kind.
https://www.cnn.com/2012/06/01/showbiz/tv/tv-kids-self-esteem/index.html
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cupcake

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Re: The Correct Opinion Thread
« Reply #41 on: February 25, 2018, 06:48:49 pm »
Mohawks are retarded.



Disagreeing with John on this.  Mohawks are pretty badass when done right.  I knew this one kid with a curly mohawk and that shit was pretty sick. 
goodbye!

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Re: The Correct Opinion Thread
« Reply #42 on: February 25, 2018, 07:02:14 pm »
Trap music sounds awful.
Everything is terrible.
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cupcake

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Re: The Correct Opinion Thread
« Reply #43 on: February 25, 2018, 07:07:37 pm »
Marriage and dating are both so overrated. 
goodbye!

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Re: The Correct Opinion Thread
« Reply #44 on: February 25, 2018, 07:10:57 pm »
Ghost in the Shell is the farthest thing from racist.

Spoiler (hover to show)
Everything is terrible.

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Everything is terrible.

Tut

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Re: The Correct Opinion Thread
« Reply #46 on: February 25, 2018, 08:18:31 pm »
This is such a thin, shallow argument that completely ignores the entire context of why diversity and representation is seen as such a big deal in our entertainment and media today. Itís like when people complain about BET and ask why there isnít a WET channel. Or say ďALL Lives MatterĒ whenever someone brings up Black Lives Matter.

The number of roles people of color have and the number of roles that white people have in film and TV are disproportionate as hell. Itís incredibly skewed with the majority of roles given to white people. So therefore, giving roles that were traditionally cast with white actors to someone whoís not white is like giving a dollar to a homeless person. Taking away a role from a traditionally non white character is like taking that homeless personís sack of $1 bills and giving it to Bill Gates.

And before anyone makes the equally simplistic and ignorant argument that China doesnít cast white people in their movies:
1) Yes they do. All the time lmao. Their biggest film of 2017 starred Frank Grillo. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_Warrior_2
2) China is a homogenous country that doesnít claim to be an ethnic cultural melting pot. On the contrary, the US absolutely does, thatís one of the founding ideals this country was built on.
3) Most foreign films do not have the same global blockbuster power that most Hollywood films do. Hollywood films reach an audience around the world, not just in the US. As a result, they have a serious impact on the social perception of ethnic groups globally. The media you consume can influence your views, who woulda thunk it? 

And donít act all high and mighty about people naturally identifying with their own kind.
https://www.cnn.com/2012/06/01/showbiz/tv/tv-kids-self-esteem/index.html

Kashmir wasn't talking about representation in general. He was talking about specific cases in which a character of a certain race is played by an actor from a different race. You are deliberately evading the subject in order to turn this into a broader discussion of representation in media.

The question here is solely about the Ghost in the Shell remake. Aladdin and the lamp has been told in China and Arabia alike, but no one cried about cultural appropriation when the animated film depicted him as brown. Kashmir's point was that different cultures have always adapted stories from one another, and when they do it's inevitable that they transplant their own actors, customs, and traditions into them. Just as there is nothing wrong with Hamilton (aside from the fact that it has rap in it), there's nothing wrong with the Ghost in the Shell remake. And this is ignoring the fact that the character was originally animated as racially ambiguous to begin with.

Tut

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Re: The Correct Opinion Thread
« Reply #50 on: February 25, 2018, 08:36:04 pm »
I give up.
Everything is terrible.
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Re: The Correct Opinion Thread
« Reply #51 on: February 25, 2018, 08:42:55 pm »
This is such a thin, shallow argument that completely ignores the entire context of why diversity and representation is seen as such a big deal in our entertainment and media today. Itís like when people complain about BET and ask why there isnít a WET channel. Or say ďALL Lives MatterĒ whenever someone brings up Black Lives Matter.

The number of roles people of color have and the number of roles that white people have in film and TV are disproportionate as hell. Itís incredibly skewed with the majority of roles given to white people. So therefore, giving roles that were traditionally cast with white actors to someone whoís not white is like giving a dollar to a homeless person. Taking away a role from a traditionally non white character is like taking that homeless personís sack of $1 bills and giving it to Bill Gates.

And before anyone makes the equally simplistic and ignorant argument that China doesnít cast white people in their movies:
1) Yes they do. All the time lmao. Their biggest film of 2017 starred Frank Grillo. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_Warrior_2
2) China is a homogenous country that doesnít claim to be an ethnic cultural melting pot. On the contrary, the US absolutely does, thatís one of the founding ideals this country was built on.
3) Most foreign films do not have the same global blockbuster power that most Hollywood films do. Hollywood films reach an audience around the world, not just in the US. As a result, they have a serious impact on the social perception of ethnic groups globally. The media you consume can influence your views, who woulda thunk it? 

And donít act all high and mighty about people naturally identifying with their own kind.
https://www.cnn.com/2012/06/01/showbiz/tv/tv-kids-self-esteem/index.html

Kashmir wasn't talking about representation in general. He was talking about specific cases in which a character of a certain race is played by an actor from a different race. You are deliberately evading the subject in order to turn this into a broader discussion of representation in media.

The question here is solely about the Ghost in the Shell remake. Aladdin and the lamp has been told in China and Arabia alike, but no one cried about cultural appropriation when the animated film depicted him as brown. Kashmir's point was that different cultures have always adapted stories from one another, and when they do it's inevitable that they transplant their own actors, customs, and traditions into them. Just as there is nothing wrong with Hamilton (aside from the fact that it has rap in it), there's nothing wrong with the Ghost in the Shell remake. And this is ignoring the fact that the character was originally animated as racially ambiguous to begin with.
This is such a confusing reply. Kashmir wasnít talking about representation in general but something thatís strongly related to it? And that refutes anything how?

Plus, he made no mention of cultural adaptations. He literally just said that it should be fine for white people to be cast as characters that were originally not white, if white characters can be cast as people who arenít white. That was his entire point. His statement was fairly broad and vague so my response was set within a broad context, nothing indicated he was speaking strictly and specifically about only the GitS remake. Verbatim, his post was:
ďBy extension, if you have no problem with casting people of color in white roles (such as Hamilton) then you should have no problem with the opposite happening either.Ē

Not a single mention of how cultural adaptations can differ, like The Departed and Internal Affairs.

Those two films would be a better example to support the point you made up for Kashmir by the way. Equating Aladdin to Ghost in the Shell is... questionable. First off, Aladdin is a folk tale that had a presence in both cultures from the beginning. America has never had its own GitS. Secondly, GitS isnít even a complete cultural adaptation. With Aladdin and The Departed, they both shifted the setting, the context, and even the aesthetics to match the culture of whichever country they meant to adapt the plot into.

The GitS remake pretty much copy pastes everything, from the Japanese aesthetic to the country it takes place in (again Japan), the Japanese names of the characters, and even ScarJoís Major retains her Japanese namesake.

Your point about ďambigousĒ animation is tired and lacks perspective.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/kotaku.com/5627268/why-do-japanese-characters-look-white/amp

Tut

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Re: The Correct Opinion Thread
« Reply #52 on: February 25, 2018, 08:55:38 pm »
This is such a confusing reply. Kashmir wasnít talking about representation in general but something thatís strongly related to it? And that refutes anything how?

Plus, he made no mention of cultural adaptations. He literally just said that it should be fine for white people to be cast as characters that were originally not white, if white characters can be cast as people who arenít white. That was his entire point. His statement was fairly broad and vague so my response was set within a broad context, nothing indicated he was speaking strictly and specifically about only the GitS remake. Verbatim, his post was:
ďBy extension, if you have no problem with casting people of color in white roles (such as Hamilton) then you should have no problem with the opposite happening either.Ē

Not a single mention of how cultural adaptations can differ, like The Departed and Internal Affairs.

Those two films would be a better example to support the point you made up for Kashmir by the way. Equating Aladdin to Ghost in the Shell is... questionable. First off, Aladdin is a folk tale that had a presence in both cultures from the beginning. America has never had its own GitS. Secondly, GitS isnít even a complete cultural adaptation. With Aladdin and The Departed, they both shifted the setting, the context, and even the aesthetics to match the culture of whichever country they meant to adapt the plot into.

The GitS remake pretty much copy pastes everything, from the Japanese aesthetic to the country it takes place in (again Japan), the Japanese names of the characters, and even ScarJoís Major retains her Japanese namesake.

Your point about ďambigousĒ animation is tired and lacks perspective.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/kotaku.com/5627268/why-do-japanese-characters-look-white/amp

Your comment was about representation in general. Kashmir was discussing specific cases of changing the race of a character in an adaptation. These are two separate topics-- one involves the lack of roles for minority actors in Hollywood (a cause I actually care about, despite what you might think), while the other is a case of social justice warriors whining about "cultural appropriation," which is not a real thing.

Stories are stories. Aladdin is an Arab folk tale that has been "appropriated" a thousand times over. Complaining about these kinds of alterations in an adaptation is completely superficial and ultimately irrelevant to the actual quality of the adaptation. If I were you, I'd concern myself more with whether or not an adaptation preserves the same morals and tone as its source material (insert Man of Steel reference here). That's what I call an unfaithful adaptation.

Also, Japanese anime was influenced by Disney's character art, so I guess technically casting a white woman reappropriates the character design back to the crackers. You know, there's a reason why nobody in Japan actually gave a shit about this.

Charles Longboat Jr.

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Re: The Correct Opinion Thread
« Reply #53 on: February 25, 2018, 09:02:16 pm »
I probably should have specified that I was referring to the cultural appropriation case (as that was what I assumed John was referring to when talking about Ghost in the Shell). I'm perfectly fine with casting diversity as long as the actors themselves reap solid performances.

cupcake

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Re: The Correct Opinion Thread
« Reply #54 on: February 25, 2018, 09:12:56 pm »
John is racist.
goodbye!

Tut

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Re: The Correct Opinion Thread
« Reply #55 on: February 25, 2018, 09:14:51 pm »
John is racist.

I will not stand for his unrepentant disparaging of the proud Mohawk people.

$+/\|_°|\|

  • David Fincher
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Re: The Correct Opinion Thread
« Reply #56 on: February 25, 2018, 09:23:19 pm »
This is such a confusing reply. Kashmir wasnít talking about representation in general but something thatís strongly related to it? And that refutes anything how?

Plus, he made no mention of cultural adaptations. He literally just said that it should be fine for white people to be cast as characters that were originally not white, if white characters can be cast as people who arenít white. That was his entire point. His statement was fairly broad and vague so my response was set within a broad context, nothing indicated he was speaking strictly and specifically about only the GitS remake. Verbatim, his post was:
ďBy extension, if you have no problem with casting people of color in white roles (such as Hamilton) then you should have no problem with the opposite happening either.Ē

Not a single mention of how cultural adaptations can differ, like The Departed and Internal Affairs.

Those two films would be a better example to support the point you made up for Kashmir by the way. Equating Aladdin to Ghost in the Shell is... questionable. First off, Aladdin is a folk tale that had a presence in both cultures from the beginning. America has never had its own GitS. Secondly, GitS isnít even a complete cultural adaptation. With Aladdin and The Departed, they both shifted the setting, the context, and even the aesthetics to match the culture of whichever country they meant to adapt the plot into.

The GitS remake pretty much copy pastes everything, from the Japanese aesthetic to the country it takes place in (again Japan), the Japanese names of the characters, and even ScarJoís Major retains her Japanese namesake.

Your point about ďambigousĒ animation is tired and lacks perspective.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/kotaku.com/5627268/why-do-japanese-characters-look-white/amp

Your comment was about representation in general. Kashmir was discussing specific cases of changing the race of a character in an adaptation. These are two separate topics-- one involves the lack of roles for minority actors in Hollywood (a cause I actually care about, despite what you might think), while the other is a case of social justice warriors whining about "cultural appropriation," which is not a real thing.

Stories are stories. Aladdin is an Arab folk tale that has been "appropriated" a thousand times over. Complaining about these kinds of alterations in an adaptation is completely superficial and ultimately irrelevant to the actual quality of the adaptation. If I were you, I'd concern myself more with whether or not an adaptation preserves the same morals and tone as its source material (insert The-Film-That-Must-Not-Be-Named reference here). That's what I call an unfaithful adaptation.

Also, Japanese anime was influenced by Disney's character art, so I guess technically casting a white woman reappropriates the character design back to the crackers. You know, there's a reason why nobody in Japan actually gave a shit about this.
Iím confused as to how weíve leaped over to cultural appropriation this time, but Iíll try to condense it as best as I can.

I think youíre making the point that Scarlettís casting is fine because much like Aladdin, The Magnificent Seven or The Departed, itís meant to be a different cultureís take on the same story.

Iíd agree, but itís especially clear with GitS, that this is not the case. The Departed shifted everything to Boston, TM7 shifted the location/time period, and Aladdin incorporated Arabic culture while again, shifting the location. GitS on the other hand is beat for beat a direct remake of the anime with the Japanese setting and cultural context maintained, meaning this is a case of white washing not ďcultural approriationĒ. (I do agree that cultural appropriation isnít really a thing by the way) Therefore itís directly related to minority actors having trouble finding work due to potential roles being taken by white actors, more than anything else IMO.

Feel free to correct me if Iíve misread or misconstrued anything.

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Re: The Correct Opinion Thread
« Reply #57 on: February 25, 2018, 09:26:27 pm »
I probably should have specified that I was referring to the cultural appropriation case (as that was what I assumed John was referring to when talking about Ghost in the Shell). I'm perfectly fine with casting diversity as long as the actors themselves reap solid performances.
Thatís great... but it doesnít really explain why you believe whitewashing is equivalent to Black/Asian/Latin/Middle Eastern-washing(?).

Tut

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Re: The Correct Opinion Thread
« Reply #58 on: February 25, 2018, 09:42:00 pm »
I probably should have specified that I was referring to the cultural appropriation case (as that was what I assumed John was referring to when talking about Ghost in the Shell). I'm perfectly fine with casting diversity as long as the actors themselves reap solid performances.
Thatís great... but it doesnít really explain why you believe whitewashing is equivalent to Black/Asian/Latin/Middle Eastern-washing(?).

Because unless you hate white people and love double standards, it's the same thing.

cupcake

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Re: The Correct Opinion Thread
« Reply #59 on: February 25, 2018, 09:43:44 pm »
I probably should have specified that I was referring to the cultural appropriation case (as that was what I assumed John was referring to when talking about Ghost in the Shell). I'm perfectly fine with casting diversity as long as the actors themselves reap solid performances.
Thatís great... but it doesnít really explain why you believe whitewashing is equivalent to Black/Asian/Latin/Middle Eastern-washing(?).

Because unless you hate white people and love double standards, it's the same thing.

White people love pretending to be victims. 
goodbye!

 

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