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Poll

Who here is still delusional enough to be excited for this thing?

I'm seeing it opening night!
2 (22.2%)
I'll probably see it in theaters... eventually.
1 (11.1%)
I'll rent it on DVD. Disney has let me down twice now.
1 (11.1%)
I'll pirate it. I refuse to give these corporate shills more of my money.
3 (33.3%)
I refuse to see this film.
2 (22.2%)

Total Members Voted: 7

Author Topic: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jed  (Read 1568 times)

Jed Groff

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Re: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jed
« Reply #180 on: March 01, 2018, 09:48:39 pm »
Man, I wish I was around for when people were still active on this thread. I would have loved a debate.

But yeah, this movieís pretty shit.

Tut

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Re: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jed
« Reply #181 on: March 01, 2018, 09:52:36 pm »
Man, I wish I was around for when people were still active on this thread. I would have loved a debate.

But yeah, this movieís pretty shit.

I enjoyed watching John and Moody implode over people hating it. Also, my prediction for the score was only like six points off.

Tho Master Fie

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Re: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jed
« Reply #182 on: March 01, 2018, 10:10:38 pm »
Man, I wish I was around for when people were still active on this thread. I would have loved a debate.

But yeah, this movieís pretty shit.
I think that this was infinitely better than either Force Awakens or Rogue One, personally. 

Charles Longboat Jr.

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Re: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jed
« Reply #183 on: March 01, 2018, 10:53:38 pm »
Man, I wish I was around for when people were still active on this thread. I would have loved a debate.

But yeah, this movieís pretty shit.
What other 2017 movies have you seen?

Jed Groff

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Re: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jed
« Reply #184 on: March 01, 2018, 11:11:47 pm »
Man, I wish I was around for when people were still active on this thread. I would have loved a debate.

But yeah, this movieís pretty shit.
What other 2017 movies have you seen?
Not a lot, sadly. Iíve been so busy with work. As of right now, I have no 10/10s or even 9/10s for 2017, but Iíll need to see more soon. As of right now my favorite film of the year would have to be Blade Runner 2049, which I gave an 8.5/10.

ChillinDylan Godsend

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Re: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jed
« Reply #185 on: March 01, 2018, 11:26:44 pm »
Man, I wish I was around for when people were still active on this thread. I would have loved a debate.

But yeah, this movieís pretty shit.
I think that this was infinitely better than either Force Awakens or Rogue One, personally. 

Agree it was infinitely better than TFA.  That's by far the worst of the series IMO.

Charles Longboat Jr.

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Re: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jed
« Reply #186 on: March 01, 2018, 11:30:05 pm »
Man, I wish I was around for when people were still active on this thread. I would have loved a debate.

But yeah, this movieís pretty shit.
What other 2017 movies have you seen?
Not a lot, sadly. Iíve been so busy with work. As of right now, I have no 10/10s or even 9/10s for 2017, but Iíll need to see more soon. As of right now my favorite film of the year would have to be Blade Runner 2049, which I gave an 8.5/10.
A worthy pick for your top film. If you haven't gotten around to them yet I would recommend Phantom Thread, Wind River (since you enjoyed Hell or High Water and it's the same director), and Three Billboards.

Robert Neville

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Re: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jed
« Reply #187 on: March 04, 2018, 05:19:11 pm »
So, I finally saw this too. After What Happened To Monday, I decided I might as well get it over with and see another genre film I had very mixed feelings about going in. As in, I delighted in hearing all the backlash to it on principle, yet I also had some hopes precisely from hearing people hated it because it wasn't like TFA and other moves from the formula Star Wars.

In the end, I would concur with most others here that it was substantially better than TFA, first two prequels, and possibly Return of the Jedi too. Nevertheless, I am glad I did not see it in theaters, for ultimately, it is an exquisitely made, (mostly) beautifully shot, torturously long film whose defining theme is failure.

To give credit to Ryan Johnson, I'll first list off some common criticisms I did NOT care about:

* Space cow/Space Leia: neither were much worse than other brief goofy parts of previous films like Evoks (or the porgs for that matter, and the desperate way they are crammed into shots to turn them into the next minions.) The former is thankfully tame compared to truly awful counterpart from John Carter, an the latter was the least of issues I had with Leia.

* Finn's deferred sacrifice (look, I won't be using spoilers, both because I am on the phone, and because fuck it, everybody who matters saw it or knows these things anyway.) Given that the sacrifice immediately prior still resulted in deaths of like 90% of people it was meant to save, I honestly don't blame Rose for going with what she felt at the time. (Especially since if Finn did blow up the cannon, she would have probably gotten shot down by one of the walkers as the only flyer left around anyway.)

* Canto Bight casino: could it have been done better? Probably, but it's one of the few scenes in the film I would NOT throw away if I could redo it somehow. In particular, it highlights a key (un)intentional theme very well: just like how the power of wealth in Star Wars universe gets pointlessly accumulated by those who do not deserve it, so does the power of the Force flows from the entire galaxy into the hands of the few people. Throughout the series, those people get both fewer in number, and ever less deserving of that power than those who came before them.

Hence, I believe the film got it partly right when it defined Luke Skywalker as a failure. Partly, because it likely did NOT need to accentuate the point with the way it filled in his backstory; it would have been to simply reaffirm the key point that the success or failure of the Rebellion/Resistance/spark/fire (great job ripping off 1930s Soviet poetry with that one, by the way. I heard Chinese still study that poem religiously, so they probably appreciated it.) Really, Johnson ALMOST understands that the main things Luke has actually done for the rebellion throughout the first two films was a) blow up the Death Star (which only partly used the Force, and was stupidly upstaged in not one, but two films by non-Force users anyway) and b) cut down a walker on Hoth with lightsaber (which didn't matter anyway)

Of course, the third film was different, where Luke was instrumental to victory...due to both Vader's and Emperor's obsession with him throwing everything they built before to the dogs. That same mistake was then repeated in TFA, and is partially seen here. One clear thread emerges when looking at all films: while Luke is right Jedi were lackluster (though totally not helped by him; particularly when he decided to confront Ben/Kylo while leaving the rest of the apprentices around. Essentially, he knew what his fathrr did last time around, yet still didn't send them off and made them hostages of his "confrontation", leading to them all getting killed.) However, the Siths are even more useless; if Empire/First Order was led by normal generals, it would have won long ago, simply because they wouldn't uselessly throw plans away "to get Skywalker".

However, that is still only part of the story. Another thing The Last Jedi (unintentionally) makes very clear now, is that Rebellion/Resistance/etc. doesn't deserve to win. It's really very simple: when your enemies just commit an enormous war crime in the previous film that was sure to generate outrage, AND you avenge it, ensuring they can't perpetrate it again, AND your opposition is led by a guy whose only vision seems to be "snuffing out hope in the galaxy" YET you still only get FOUR HUNDRED people to fight for you, it's time to face the facts. It's not that the "spark of hope was put out"; it's that whatever your alternative is, it clearly fucking sucks. You had something like 20 years in between Emperor's death and Kylo's rise to do your best, yet the best you ever managed was to recreate the supposedly great Republic on a whole SEVEN planets out of a whole galaxy, that were all on a single system and got blown up in one shot? It doesn't matter who you blame for this (my pick is Leia, since she was the closest original trilogy had to a civilian leader, and was probably most responsible for setting up governing and such) - in the end, it's clear 99% of the Galaxy wanted to have nothing to do with what you offered.

That's also why it's fitting Luke died with the words showing he had learned nothing and was the same fool he had proven himself as earlier in life (I particularly like when he explains the Force, saying "death feeds new life...in a cosmic balance", conveniently forgetting to explain how does the destruction of seven planets feeds into this, and what kind of life does it feed.) "War is only just beginning." Perhaps, and how about you now say why it's a GOOD thing? Then again, it's nothing compared to the way Poe Dameron is still in any way listened to when he is responsible for hundreds of his fellow fighters' death by the end; both with the bombing run (Empire shrugged off a whole planet with like a million soldiers on it that you and your friends killed to kick your ass anyway, so why did you think that Dreadnought mattered?) to the codebreaker plan (of course the guy you pick up from the most corrupt place in the galaxy will stay loyal to you!) that ended up in ~90% of their transports blown up. Then again, First Order still didn't execute Phasma for some reason when it was her weakness that let you blow up that planet in the first place (and whose incompetence again led to Finn and Rose surviving), so we shouldn't overestimate their competence.

All in all, this is really more about what Star Wars became than just this particular film. If Johnson was the one to direct Episode VII, he probably could've made it all a lot better. As it is, he was bound to Abrams' decisions, and he did manage to fix some of them, but too many others became far worse. Hence, this film is a 4/10; Star Wars as a franchise is beyond saving.

ChillinDylan Godsend

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Re: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jed
« Reply #188 on: March 04, 2018, 05:48:45 pm »
In the end, I would concur with most others here that it was substantially better than TFA, first two prequels, and possibly Return of the Jedi too.

Yep!

Tut

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Re: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jed
« Reply #189 on: July 19, 2018, 01:35:42 am »
I watched this again tonight. Given that I admittedly didn't pay attention at all the first time around, some of it felt like I was watching it for the first time. Of course, that just made it worse. I really enjoyed the Rey/Luke/Ben scenes, as before, but the lack of purpose in the rest of the movie's story just frustrated me to no end. Nothing of consequence happens off of that island. There's an awesome movie hiding in here somewhere-- a movie that asks some interesting questions about the black-and-white morality of the original trilogy-- but it's buried under a heap of shit called Rose.

Charles Longboat Jr.

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Re: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jed
« Reply #190 on: July 20, 2018, 01:08:32 am »
I watched this again tonight. Given that I admittedly didn't pay attention at all the first time around, some of it felt like I was watching it for the first time. Of course, that just made it worse. I really enjoyed the Rey/Luke/Ben scenes, as before, but the lack of purpose in the rest of the movie's story just frustrated me to no end. Nothing of consequence happens off of that island. There's an awesome movie hiding in here somewhere-- a movie that asks some interesting questions about the black-and-white morality of the original trilogy-- but it's buried under a heap of shit called Rose.
Oh no! Youíre going to get called a misogynist incel by Rian Johnson on Twitter now!

Crohn's Boy

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Re: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jed
« Reply #191 on: July 20, 2018, 03:01:05 pm »
I watched this again tonight. Given that I admittedly didn't pay attention at all the first time around, some of it felt like I was watching it for the first time. Of course, that just made it worse. I really enjoyed the Rey/Luke/Ben scenes, as before, but the lack of purpose in the rest of the movie's story just frustrated me to no end. Nothing of consequence happens off of that island. There's an awesome movie hiding in here somewhere-- a movie that asks some interesting questions about the black-and-white morality of the original trilogy-- but it's buried under a heap of shit called Rose.
Oh no! Youíre going to get called a misogynist incel by Rian Johnson on Twitter now!

You're aware that he was calling out the people harassing and insulting the actress incessantly on Instagram, right?
Goodbye!

Crohn's Boy

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Re: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jed
« Reply #192 on: July 20, 2018, 03:02:01 pm »
I also happened to watch this again last night, this time with my friend.  He liked it a lot too, although it helps that he doesn't hold the original trilogy in high regard.
Goodbye!

Tut

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Re: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jed
« Reply #193 on: July 20, 2018, 03:06:38 pm »
I watched this again tonight. Given that I admittedly didn't pay attention at all the first time around, some of it felt like I was watching it for the first time. Of course, that just made it worse. I really enjoyed the Rey/Luke/Ben scenes, as before, but the lack of purpose in the rest of the movie's story just frustrated me to no end. Nothing of consequence happens off of that island. There's an awesome movie hiding in here somewhere-- a movie that asks some interesting questions about the black-and-white morality of the original trilogy-- but it's buried under a heap of shit called Rose.
Oh no! Youíre going to get called a misogynist incel by Rian Johnson on Twitter now!

You're aware that he was calling out the people harassing and insulting the actress incessantly on Instagram, right?

I don't want to live in a world where I can't even call an actress a fat doughy-faced retard without my free speech being silenced.

Charles Longboat Jr.

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Re: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jed
« Reply #194 on: July 20, 2018, 05:59:34 pm »
I watched this again tonight. Given that I admittedly didn't pay attention at all the first time around, some of it felt like I was watching it for the first time. Of course, that just made it worse. I really enjoyed the Rey/Luke/Ben scenes, as before, but the lack of purpose in the rest of the movie's story just frustrated me to no end. Nothing of consequence happens off of that island. There's an awesome movie hiding in here somewhere-- a movie that asks some interesting questions about the black-and-white morality of the original trilogy-- but it's buried under a heap of shit called Rose.
Oh no! Youíre going to get called a misogynist incel by Rian Johnson on Twitter now!

You're aware that he was calling out the people harassing and insulting the actress incessantly on Instagram, right?
I assumed that was the case, though I wouldnít be surprised if he and some of the other filmmakers in association with Lucasfilm are using that vocal minority of fans to quell criticism of their output overall.

 

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