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Author Topic: Suicide Squad  (Read 4348 times)

Diego Tutweiller

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #480 on: October 27, 2016, 08:06:32 pm »
If I had to choose one user to come back, it'd be Alex Maverick.

*Tommy South

I would've said MP a few months ago, but now that he's back I agree with this.

Caleb Paasche

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #481 on: October 27, 2016, 08:57:47 pm »
If I had to choose one user to come back, it'd be Alex Maverick.
I'd go Nyland myself but can't argue with Maverick.

J. Kashmir

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #482 on: October 27, 2016, 11:20:36 pm »
It's a tough choice between South and the Nylander for me. That said, I wasn't around long enough to see Maverick's best moments.

John Tyler

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #483 on: October 30, 2016, 10:49:34 am »
Anyone else notice how nonsensical the entire premise of the film is?

So you fear that if a new Superman-like being shows up on Earth, he might not be so benevolent and might be a terrorist. Okay, fine. So they decide that they should put together a team to do the job. Okay, that's also fine. So they decide that the team has to consist of criminals, some of whom are metahumans whose powers don't compare to Superman's.

Yeah, this is bullshit.

And you can't even give the excuse that this is the exact same premise as the comics, because in the comics, the reason for having a Suicide Squad made sense. They were assembled to go on black ops missions in different parts of the world that no other team could handle, they weren't assembled to battle the next Superman.

Oh, and nice to know Amanda Waller doesn't consider the possibility of a centuries-old witch that can teleport not being under her control.

This movie really is getting worse the more I think about it...

John Tyler

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #484 on: October 30, 2016, 10:53:01 am »
Another thing: the mid-credits scene basically proves the pointlessness of this film's existence, specifically when Bruce Wayne says to Waller, "You should shut it down. My friends and I will do it for you."

Diego Tutweiller

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #485 on: November 05, 2016, 04:41:42 am »
Despite Danny's choice to "quit while ahead" during our discussion of this film, I would still like to address some aspects of this film that confused me greatly. Some of these might have been the result of my loss of interest in the film fairly early in its runtime, so if someone has some insight that might explain any of these, feel free. But Danny, if you say the words "It was in the comics," I swear to God...



1) What city were they in? Was it New York? Where were all the people? Am I supposed to assume that this enormous metropolis was completely evacuated in the span of just a few hours? I guess they used the same evacuation protocol as that "uninhabited area" in BVS did...

2) The term "metahuman" was mentioned on this thread (and apparently in the movie as well). My question: What is a metahuman? If it's DC's term for "mutant," why did they never just state that in the movie? Are metahumans common in this universe? What causes them? These are things I simply could not glean just from watching the film.

3) What is Harley Quinn's superpower? I know she fell in a vat of semen and came out insane, but what can she do, exactly? Why was she on the team?

4) I know I already said this, but I feel like it cannot be overstated... magic exists in this universe? When? What? Huh? As far as I knew, the only precursors to this movie were BVS and The-Film-That-Must-Not-Be-Named. No magic or "enchanted blades" in those. Just aliens and punching. So when was magic established in the franchise? Was it in this film? Do you mean to tell me that when all those general types sat around watching witch bitch do her thing, that was the first time they'd seen any of that shit? Why were their reactions so subdued? Maybe that's why none of these characters feel like real human beings... none of their reactions to the insane stuff happening in this movie feel genuine.

5) Why the Joker? How does he fit in here? And wait... he has a girlfriend? How did that come about? All I saw were a few 30-second clips of him trying to seduce his therapist. But she must have been pretty crazy already for any of that stuff to work... so how did she become a therapist? Was this explained in the scenes they cut out? I bet it was explained in the scenes they cut out.

6) Did anyone really think these guys could fight Superman or are y'all just fucking with me?



Please explain. I am truly curious.

John Tyler

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #486 on: November 05, 2016, 08:14:48 am »
Despite Danny's choice to "quit while ahead" during our discussion of this film, I would still like to address some aspects of this film that confused me greatly. Some of these might have been the result of my loss of interest in the film fairly early in its runtime, so if someone has some insight that might explain any of these, feel free. But Danny, if you say the words "It was in the comics," I swear to God...



1) What city were they in? Was it New York? Where were all the people? Am I supposed to assume that this enormous metropolis was completely evacuated in the span of just a few hours? I guess they used the same evacuation protocol as that "uninhabited area" in BVS did...

2) The term "metahuman" was mentioned on this thread (and apparently in the movie as well). My question: What is a metahuman? If it's DC's term for "mutant," why did they never just state that in the movie? Are metahumans common in this universe? What causes them? These are things I simply could not glean just from watching the film.

3) What is Harley Quinn's superpower? I know she fell in a vat of semen and came out insane, but what can she do, exactly? Why was she on the team?

4) I know I already said this, but I feel like it cannot be overstated... magic exists in this universe? When? What? Huh? As far as I knew, the only precursors to this movie were BVS and The-Film-That-Must-Not-Be-Named. No magic or "enchanted blades" in those. Just aliens and punching. So when was magic established in the franchise? Was it in this film? Do you mean to tell me that when all those general types sat around watching witch bitch do her thing, that was the first time they'd seen any of that shit? Why were their reactions so subdued? Maybe that's why none of these characters feel like real human beings... none of their reactions to the insane stuff happening in this movie feel genuine.

5) Why the Joker? How does he fit in here? And wait... he has a girlfriend? How did that come about? All I saw were a few 30-second clips of him trying to seduce his therapist. But she must have been pretty crazy already for any of that stuff to work... so how did she become a therapist? Was this explained in the scenes they cut out? I bet it was explained in the scenes they cut out.

6) Did anyone really think these guys could fight Superman or are y'all just fucking with me?



Please explain. I am truly curious.
1) It was Midway City in Michigan. As for where all the people were, I don't have a clue either.

2) Wikipedia: "In DC Comics' DC Universe, a metahuman is a superhuman. The term is roughly synonymous with both mutant and mutate in the Marvel Universe and posthuman in the Wildstorm and Ultimate Marvel Universes. In DC Comics, the term is used loosely in most instances to refer to any human-like being with extranormal powers and abilities, be they technological, alien, mutant, or magical in nature. A significant portion of these are normal human beings born with a genetic variant called the "metagene," which causes them to gain powers and abilities during freak accidents or times of intense psychological distress.

3) Harley Quinn doesn't have superpowers. She's good at being bad-ass with a mallet and a baseball bat. As for why she's on the team, it was explained in her introduction (with those retarded vignette titles) that she helped participate in the murder of Jason Todd/Robin and Amanda Waller says she's more fearless and crazier than the Joker, and she was looking for the worst of the worst to be a part of Task Force X.

4) I guess you can say that magic existed in this universe prior to Superman arriving on Earth, because after both Superman defeating Zod and his Kryptonian gang in Metropolis and him dying at the hands of Doomsd-- er, Zodsday, Supes ended up becoming a beacon for other superheroes and metahumans to creep back from the shadows.

5) The Joker was only in here because Harley Quinn's in it and I guess you can't have Harley Quinn in your movie without putting The Joker in there somewhere somehow. Dr. Harleen F. Quinzel was the Joker's psychiatrist. Over time, she felt that she was curing him and treating him well, but in actuality, she was being tortured and manipulated by the Joker to fall in love with him. Their relationship in the source material is actually much more abusive (hell, Joker never really loved Harley, he only used her as a mean's to an end) whereas in here, it was portrayed as more loving and affectionate so audiences wouldn't be "offended."

6) Yes, Amanda Waller and the government really thought these people could fight the next Superman. It's so god damn stupid.

Make of these explanations what you will.
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Diego Tutweiller

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #487 on: November 05, 2016, 01:47:44 pm »
1) It was Midway City in Michigan. As for where all the people were, I don't have a clue either.

2) Wikipedia: "In DC Comics' DC Universe, a metahuman is a superhuman. The term is roughly synonymous with both mutant and mutate in the Marvel Universe and posthuman in the Wildstorm and Ultimate Marvel Universes. In DC Comics, the term is used loosely in most instances to refer to any human-like being with extranormal powers and abilities, be they technological, alien, mutant, or magical in nature. A significant portion of these are normal human beings born with a genetic variant called the "metagene," which causes them to gain powers and abilities during freak accidents or times of intense psychological distress.

3) Harley Quinn doesn't have superpowers. She's good at being bad-ass with a mallet and a baseball bat. As for why she's on the team, it was explained in her introduction (with those retarded vignette titles) that she helped participate in the murder of Jason Todd/Robin and Amanda Waller says she's more fearless and crazier than the Joker, and she was looking for the worst of the worst to be a part of Task Force X.

4) I guess you can say that magic existed in this universe prior to Superman arriving on Earth, because after both Superman defeating Zod and his Kryptonian gang in Metropolis and him dying at the hands of Doomsd-- er, Zodsday, Supes ended up becoming a beacon for other superheroes and metahumans to creep back from the shadows.

5) The Joker was only in here because Harley Quinn's in it and I guess you can't have Harley Quinn in your movie without putting The Joker in there somewhere somehow. Dr. Harleen F. Quinzel was the Joker's psychiatrist. Over time, she felt that she was curing him and treating him well, but in actuality, she was being tortured and manipulated by the Joker to fall in love with him. Their relationship in the source material is actually much more abusive (hell, Joker never really loved Harley, he only used her as a mean's to an end) whereas in here, it was portrayed as more loving and affectionate so audiences wouldn't be "offended."

6) Yes, Amanda Waller and the government really thought these people could fight the next Superman. It's so god damn stupid.

Make of these explanations what you will.

Hm. This was helpful. My thoughts:

1) The city evacuation issue is probably the result of two things. Firstly, the execs wanted to avoid civilian casualty complaints like the ones they got about The-Film-That-Must-Not-Be-Named. And secondly, they wanted a big concrete jungle for the "heroes" to run around and shoot people in, like an enormous playground or one of those "airsoft ranges" where grown men shoot plastic pellets at one another. It gives them the ability to set up a city-sized obstacle course for the characters without having to worry about other people getting in the way. Of course, it's utter nonsense... but that's no surprise.

2) That was informative, John. Thank you. What fascinates me is that this was never mentioned in the film. If it's the result of genetic mutation/DNA, why did the movie never feel the need to explain that? Just a throwaway line would suffice. Well, here's my theory-- the folks at DC didn't want to waste time explaining something they figured we'd just assume given our experience with the X-Men movies. So now, apparently, they have the ability to throw whatever insane stuff they want at us (aliens, magic, mutation) without so much as a fleeting explanation. Scary stuff.

3) Lol.

4) As with my mutation complaint... how can they get away with showing us this stuff without ever establishing it? If someone watched this movie with no context for what "superheroes" are, they'd be completely confused. Really though, the biggest issue is that the characters in the film don't react to these ridiculous things like real human beings, further distancing them from the audience and preventing us from relating to them on any level.

5) This is kind of the vibe I got here. They wanted Margot Robbie's ass in the movie, but couldn't do it unless they had a Joker, so they cast Jared Leto and gave him about thirty seconds of screentime. And, needless to say, someone who hasn't read the comics would never have gleaned all that information from the movie (so I guess we'll just have to wait for the "ultimate cut").

6) Agreed.

Danny Darkoh

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #488 on: November 05, 2016, 02:37:21 pm »
The Squad wasn't formed to fight Superman-like beings, they simply used that as an example of their possible purposes. From the plot synopsis of Suicide Squad, it's stated they're all chosen as expendable assets for high risk missions. So basically the comic book's reason. Which makes sense.

And it was pretty well known Joker had Harley Quinn as a love interest/sidekick/supporting character even before the movie was announced, lol. It's not like they just inserted her without explaining her origin either.

I think it's unfair to judge the movie for expecting it's audience to already possess some preliminary knowledge of the source material, considering the source material isn't exactly obscure and uncommon, especially today where typically "nerdy" things have become mainstream.

It's not a bad thing they can throw crazier things at audiences now that these outlandish concepts have been normalized. It just makes sense. For example, would it be reasonable to complain that now thanks to Lord of the Rings, they can include dragons and orcs in FANTASY films without a load of exposition to spoonfeed/prepare an audience?

Diego Tutweiller

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #489 on: November 05, 2016, 03:09:35 pm »
The Squad wasn't formed to fight Superman-like beings, they simply used that as an example of their possible purposes. From the plot synopsis of Suicide Squad, it's stated they're all chosen as expendable assets for high risk missions. So basically the comic book's reason. Which makes sense.

Uh... call me crazy, but didn't Viola Davis explicitly say that she wanted the squad ready in case "The next Superman" doesn't turn out to be a good guy? What the hell is Margot Robbie with a baseball bat going to do then? And if they're expendable assets for these missions, why send a bunch of special forces guys along with them? Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose?

And it was pretty well known Joker had Harley Quinn as a love interest/sidekick/supporting character even before the movie was announced, lol. It's not like they just inserted her without explaining her origin either.

I mean, I saw three scenes that established their relationship prior to the events of the movie. In one, they're having a therapy session. That shows how they meet... all right, fair enough. In the next, he's zapping her brain with something. Why? What's he doing? Did that make her insane? Was she not insane already, given that she was being seduced by the Joker, of all people? Then he throws her into a vat of goo. What was that scene all about? I thought it would give her superpowers, but apparently she doesn't have any. So... why exactly did that happen? These are the questions that nagged me through the whole film, and prevented me from being invested in it.

I think it's unfair to judge the movie for expecting it's audience to already possess some preliminary knowledge of the source material, considering the source material isn't exactly obscure and uncommon, especially today where typically "nerdy" things have become mainstream.

Oh, fuck you. Honestly, can we not just make a standalone film anymore? Everything requires comic books and video games to get the full experience of the movie. I have literally never read any DC comics in my life, so I was completely confused during this entire film. There's a difference between expecting your audience to make assumptions along the way in the movie and expecting them to have done a shitload of background reading before sitting down to watch it. Oh, and "mainstream?" Batman is mainstream. Superman is mainstream. Killer Croc? Uh... what the hell is that?

It's not a bad thing they can throw crazier things at audiences now that these outlandish concepts have been normalized. It just makes sense. For example, would it be reasonable to complain that now thanks to Lord of the Rings, they can include dragons and orcs in FANTASY films without a load of exposition to spoonfeed/prepare an audience?

Okay, even you need to realize what a false equivalency this is. Those are fantasy films, you walnut. Suicide Squad takes place in the context of our world. When it comes to movies like LOTR and Star Wars, they can set up whatever crazy rules they want, but something like DC's universe needs to obey at least some laws of the real world if it wants to be taken seriously. You can't have it both ways. If you're going to have a movie taking place on Earth with supposedly real human beings, you're going to need to give some sort of context for the outlandish things happening.

This right here is the difference between fantasy and sci-fi/superhero films. The fantasy genre sets up entirely different universes (Westeros, Middle Earth, etc) with their own backstories that can then be explored. But if you're basing your universe off of the real world, you're gonna have to explain why people can suddenly do magic and shoot fireballs. It's very confusing for the viewer when these things go by completely unnoticed by characters in the film.

And to your other point... yes, it most certainly is a bad thing. If DC and Marvel can construct any ridiculous storyline they want now and excuse it by saying "It's based on the comics," what do original films have to offer? Retarded superhero fanboys will keep seeing these garbage films because they offer a lot more explosions and kewl stuff without the boring parts where things are actually explained and established. After all, why see an original sci-fi film when you know you're going to have to learn new things about its universe? It's much easier to just sit back and enjoy your Nazi-alien-magic-mutant-goddess-dinosaur movies. These superhero movies have destroyed the concept of restraint by offering up all of these inane plotlines, and real movies-- the ones that actually tell a story-- can't compete in that climate.

John Tyler

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #490 on: November 05, 2016, 04:38:12 pm »
I mean, I saw three scenes that established their relationship prior to the events of the movie. In one, they're having a therapy session. That shows how they meet... all right, fair enough. In the next, he's zapping her brain with something. Why? What's he doing? Did that make her insane? Was she not insane already, given that she was being seduced by the Joker, of all people? Then he throws her into a vat of goo. What was that scene all about? I thought it would give her superpowers, but apparently she doesn't have any. So... why exactly did that happen? These are the questions that nagged me through the whole film, and prevented me from being invested in it.
Her being thrown into the vat of toxic chemicals was what managed to fully make her as batshit insane and murderous as the Joker and is also what made her skin turn completely white. I guess you can also make the argument that it also changed her hair from being regular blonde to light blonde with red and blue highlights, much like how it also made the Joker's hair green, but I'm mainly going by the source material and other portrayals of these characters and I'm aware you're not particularly familiar with them, so...
« Last Edit: November 05, 2016, 04:40:17 pm by John Tyler »

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #491 on: November 05, 2016, 04:55:34 pm »
I don't know Diego, I didn't really like Suicide Squad that much and have never read a comic book in my life (outside from this one Batman comic that I read in 4th grade that I can barely remember), but I could still understand most of it.  Yes, some logic seems questionable when applied to real world logic, but I could definitely follow the story (despite it being very weak).
Goodbye!
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Cutler de Chateau

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #492 on: November 05, 2016, 05:19:56 pm »
I have literally never read any DC comics in my life,

Lie.

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Caleb Paasche

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #493 on: November 05, 2016, 05:35:54 pm »
I don't know Diego, I didn't really like Suicide Squad that much and have never read a comic book in my life (outside from this one Batman comic that I read in 4th grade that I can barely remember), but I could still understand most of it.  Yes, some logic seems questionable when applied to real world logic, but I could definitely follow the story (despite it being very weak).
Yeah, I agree with this. I didn't care for the movie much, but I don't really get the complaints that it was incomprehensible. I thought everything was pretty easy to follow, even if some logic was definitely questionable as you said.
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Diego Tutweiller

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #494 on: November 05, 2016, 07:17:04 pm »
I don't know Diego, I didn't really like Suicide Squad that much and have never read a comic book in my life (outside from this one Batman comic that I read in 4th grade that I can barely remember), but I could still understand most of it.  Yes, some logic seems questionable when applied to real world logic, but I could definitely follow the story (despite it being very weak).

I'm not saying I was completely lost. Yeah, I could probably give you a synopsis of the plot. Some archaeologist finds a mystical thingy that possesses her with an ancient spirit and the government tries to control her, but she goes on a rampage and shoots a laser into the sky and... uh... builds an army somehow (forgot how that part happened). I know what happened. My question is why. And that's a question nobody bothers to ask about these superhero movies, solely because they're based on source material that we're supposed to be familiar with.

I am asking you guys to step back and judge this film from the standpoint of coherency. And from that standpoint... it is a poop.



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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #497 on: July 28, 2017, 05:49:42 pm »
Watched it.  Why didn't the witch bitch just teleport her heart out of the suitcase?

John Tyler

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Re: Suicide Squad
« Reply #498 on: July 28, 2017, 07:43:18 pm »
Watched it.  Why didn't the witch bitch just teleport her heart out of the suitcase?
Because... reasons.

 

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